File #4270: "Transcription"
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Transcription
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Ashlen Clark
HIST 441
April 11, 2017
This interview was conducted with Betty Richards on March 22, 2017 by Ashlen Clark
with assistance from Tiernan O’Rourke on the topic of Bird Haven.
AC: This is Ashlen Clark interviewing…
BR: Betty Richards…
AC: About Bird Haven. Mrs. Richards how did you come to work at Bird Haven?
BR: Well it was right after I got married. The first job I had. And it was close to where I lived, I
could walk. And also my husband’s grandmother worked at the, for the family. She did their
cooking and cleaned the house and that’s how I got my job. And I think I worked probably
maybe two years. I’m not sure, I can’t remember. But then I had my first child and I, I didn’t
work anymore for a while.
AC: Alright. You said you lived close by, you could walk. So did, you, knew about Bird Haven
before you started working there?
BR: Oh yes, yeah.
AC: Was it a place that before you started working there you visited a lot, or is it just something
that you didn’t really visit, or how was that?
BR: Well I visited with my husband’s grandmother I helped her sometimes to clean or whatever.
And I knew what the place looked like and everything. Yeah.
AC: Was it, the family that lived there, was it just the family that owned Bird Haven or were
there other people that lived there?
BR: No it was just the family that owned Bird Haven, it was Mr. and Mrs. Clark, and Mrs. Clark
was married before and she had two sons. And the one son run the place, John Gray Paul is his
name, and we called him Spizz.
AC: Why did you call him that?
BR: I don’t know, he had a nickname, someone gave him that nickname and I don’t know how,
why, and he always when he come, he, he would stay at the house a lot and come over and
check on, you know, what we were doing and everything. And he had two cocker spaniels and
every time we’d see them cocker spaniels we knew he was coming.
AC: That’s really great.
BR: He was a good, he was a good boss.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: So did you have a lot of interaction with him?
BR: Well, yeah. And nothing like any parties or anything but he was real friendly and nice.
AC: So when you were working there what was your role? What was your typical day like?
BR: Well it was about, I’d say 8 or 10 women in one, one building and the men would make the
things and they would bring them to us and we had to sand them and then they’d have to be
stained and then it would have to be sanded again and then a shellac or something put on it.
And then from there it would go up to the, it was a post office back there then. It would go up
to that building and the orders would be carried out and packed and sent.
AC: Okay. So when you, when the packages were sent out were they mostly local people that
were ordering or further away or do you know?
BR: No it was lot of different states.
AC: Okay so a fairly big production?
BR: Yeah, yeah. And we made a lot of things. I had a lot of them but I moved about eight times
since I’ve been married and every time I moved I guess I left something. ‘Cause, or I gave it
away. So, and I gave my minister a tray that he wanted it had the label on it.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: And he died and we told his son to be sure and let us get, buy it back but we didn’t get it.
AC: Shame when that happens. When you were working in the shops, what was your, what
specifically did you do with the pieces?
BR: I helped to sand the things off and stain them. And then we had a lady that, she had a, you
know, a machine that she would spray them, spray the things.
AC: Okay. So did you come to work there because it was some place close or because you had a
connection or what brought you to start working there?
BR: Well I, this was back in 1948 when I got married and wasn’t too many jobs around that area
and because it was close and they needed somebody and I applied for it and I got it. Yeah.
AC: Awesome. So how would you describe the environment like within the community and
within the shops? Was it a good place to work? Did you enjoy your time there?
BR: Oh yes. Everybody that work there was real friendly and we all got along good. Yeah we had
a lot of fun, I mean, even though we all worked, we still had a lot of fun.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Were they mostly people that you knew outside of work from the community, or did you
meet them at work? Were they local people?
Br: Most of them were local. Now some of them came from over in Mount Clifton which is not
too far from Bayse. And well now the one man lives in Edinburgh, but he didn’t live there when
he worked there. But I think most of them were local.
AC: Okay. What kind of impact on the community would you say that Bird Haven had since it
employed a lot of local people? Was it positive for the community?
BR: Yeah it was. Yeah it gave people work and make a living and I worked, back then I made 80
dollars a month working there. They only paid, I don’t think they paid every week, it was like
every two weeks.
AC: Okay. So for the people who weren’t local and like main community members, how did
they react to bird haven? Did they, like, people come visit from outside or how did, how did
Bird Haven interact with further away…
BR: Well back then Bryce, they called it Bryce Hillside Cottages, was open and a lot of people,
that was busy all summer long. And of course people that would come there and to Orkney also
would visit local places. And I’m sure they, that he sold a lot of things right there.
AC: Okay so it was, you could actually buy things from Bird Haven rather than ordering them
and it being mailed to you?
BR: Yeah. And the workers could buy, you know, anything. I can’t remember if we got a
discount or not but I, I had quite a few things. I had a magazine cradle, and I had a saw book
table but I don’t know what happened to those. Well I gave some of them to my mother-in-law
and I had trays and we made lazy Susans but I never, that I didn’t want. But I got a few things. I
got those little stools and some trays. And we made salad bowls and forks and the little bowls
to go with it. Those were a good seller.
AC: Oh wow, yeah.
BR: Yeah. They were a good item, they sold good.
AC: So what was the most common thing ordered, or the most popular items?
BR: Probably the salad bowls.
AC: Okay.
BR: ‘Cause it was a big bowl and then the little ones and then the salad fork and spoon. And it
was all made out of wood.
AC: Wow.
BR: And of course there was instructions with that with how to do it because you, you couldn’t
do too much water on that wood.
AC: Right. So what kind of instructions would come along with that?
BR: Well like every once and a while to oil, just your regular oil that you use to cook with, to
maybe just clean it with that. And dry it good.
AC: Okay. Cool. We had a little bit of background information that we were given and it talked
about how some of the items that were made represented like the heritage of people in the
community. Did you see that represented through the stuff that was made?
BR: Well, when, I don’t know what year Bird Haven really started but they made toys and also
puzzles. Now we weren’t making those when I started.
AC: Okay.
BR: I never saw any of those.
AC: Okay.
BR: They, they’d already sold them all and changed over to different, the other different things
that we were making.
AC: Okay so it was, they didn’t make everything, like all of that, their entire span? They kind of
transitioned into the other products?
BR: Yeah they changed from the puzzles and the toys and, to more things that were I guess
more useful.
AC: Interesting.
BR: Now I don’t know who changed it or why, but I. (phone ringing) Uh oh. Excuse me a minute.
AC: You’re fine.
TO: Go ahead.
BR: Hello? Can I call you back I’m being interviewed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright bye. That was my
minister.
AC: Oh. That’s fine.
BR: Now did that upset…
AC: No it can be cut out, and we can just put it right back together.
BR: Oh well you, could you hear what I said on the phone or anything?
AC: No I couldn’t, I couldn’t hear you.
BR: Okay. I mean, I hope it didn’t mess you up.
AC: No, no, no, no. We can, when we put it on the computer we can take out parts.
BR: Oh okay.
AC: So we can, if you want us to take that out, we can just take it out and put it right back
together. How did having this job at Bird Haven as your first job, how did that effect future jobs
you had or just anything?
BR: Oh well I don’t know. I guess I just learned to work. ‘Cause I was young and, I don’t know, it
was just nice and everybody got along good and everything just sure is different now.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah. And let’s see, from there I didn’t work for a good while, then, because I had four
children and I didn’t work until I had that last one and then I worked at Bryce and I worked at a
apple place where we graded apples. And I don’t know I just learned to work.
AC: Yeah. So but it was a good, good experience as a first job?
BR: Oh yeah, yeah it was nice. I mean everybody got along good. We just had a lot of, a lot of
fun.
AC: Yeah, good.
BR: In fact, the one man you’re going to interview we picked on him a lot.
AC: Really? Why did you pick on him?
BR: Oh just, nice, it wasn’t mean or anything.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But he was really, he really was good to get along with. Yeah I still once and a while talk to
him.
AC: Good. So are you still, you said you talk to him, but are you, are you in contact with a lot of
people that you worked with?
(phone ringing)
BR: Excuse me again.
AC: You’re fine.
BR: Hello? Betty? I’m being interviewed now, I’ll call you back. Alright. That was a lady from my
church.
AC: Oh, you’re a popular woman. Do you still keep in contact with the people you worked with?
I know you mentioned the one man.
BR: Yeah, I don’t, I talk to him once and a while and once in a while I get to see him but I don’t
visit much anymore. I guess I’ve gotten lazy and I’m old and I just like to stay at home.
AC: Yeah that’s fair.
BR: But once in a while I do talk to him on the phone.
AC: Okay that’s good. So even after you stopped working, you said you stopped to have kids.
Did you stay local, did you stay involved with the community?
BR: Yeah I stayed local for a good while and then we moved to Maryland and lived down there,
I think it was like seven or nine years, and then I didn’t like the city. So I moved back and I lived
up there for a couple years and then we built this house, this was my home-place. That big
house down there was where I was born and raised.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: And so we built this and I just, we moved back here. And I worked up at that country store
that’s closed for, oh I don’t know, probably close to twenty years.
AC: Wow.
BR: And yeah I stayed in the area.
AC: Yeah.
BR: And I go to that church up there.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Did you see a difference in the local area once Bird Haven closed and stopped providing
jobs there?
BR: No, I don’t think so because a lot of people had cars and they would, you know, go a
distance to work and a lot of people would even go down to the city from our area to work
everyday.
AC: Oh wow. Okay. When we were talking to one of our other interviewees, they mentioned
how after Bird Haven closed there was kind of an in between period but then in more recent
years there’s kind of been an uptick in the interest in the items that were created at Bird Haven.
Have you noticed anything about that?
BR: You mean, since the new owners took over and bought the place and they started having a
lot of animals and ducks and chickens and stuff.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: Yeah it’s been interesting.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah and also the people that bought it, their, it was the woman’s grandmother that was
from this area. And her husband, she and her husband I think it was, had a little resort on past
Bird Haven. It was called Shenandoah Alum springs. And so see the, it all kind of dates back to,
she, she was her, her grandparents and parents were from this area, that own it now.
AC: Oh so have you been back down there since it closed?
BR: One time. After, let’s see, yeah I’ve been there since they took over.
AC: Okay.
BR: ‘Cause it was, it’s a big difference in what, now they have it, ‘cause it, they did a lot of
different things. In fact, they moved the big house.
AC: Really?
BR: That Mr. and Mrs. Clark lived in. Now I haven’t been back since they moved that, I’d like to
see where it is.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah it was a beautiful place and it was a lot of land and it was a couple houses on it.
AC: So were those houses occupied at the time?
BR: No, maybe one of them was but other than that no.
AC: Okay. When you went back were all the old buildings still there?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Did they still have stuff in them?
BR: Yeah, in fact, they said when they closed it was a lot of the, like, the bowls and other things
that were made was still in there that they had never, never got rid of. Now I don’t know what
they did with it or if they still have it or what.
AC: Yeah. Do you know why Bird Haven closed?
BR: No. Mr. John Gray Paul went to, moved to Harrisonburg. Well let’s see, I guess his mother
and his step-father probably died and then I guess he didn’t want to keep it up. I really don’t
know. I can’t remember. But he went to Harrisonburg and he was a lawyer.
AC: Oh.
BR: I think he’s still living, I’m not sure.
AC: Okay. Interesting.
BR: Mr. Polk could probably tell you, the, the man that worked there too that’s still living, he
could probably tell you if Mr., if John Gray Paul is still living. I don’t, I can’t remember if he is or
not.
AC: Okay.
BR: I think if he is he’d be pretty old.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: So you said you have some of the products from Bird Haven. Do you know, has there been a
bigger interest in those items since they’re no longer being produced?
BR: Well I think anybody that sees them at, some of them come up at auctions, they have, we
have an auction every week down in Edinburgh. And I’m sure some of those come up in
auctions and yeah people are interested in it. Now that one right there my, my daughter’s
friend gave to her and it’s a name on the back of who owned it.
AC: Oh.
BR: And I guess it was probably bought at a sale. And what it is I don’t know. If its…
AC: This one?
BR: Yeah. If it’s supposed to be a bowl, I don’t know what it’s supposed to be.
AC: Interesting.
BR: I, maybe I need to take that down to Mr. Polk and let him look at it. See if he can tell me
what it is because he worked there before I started.
AC: Okay. Awesome.
TO: Do you want me to get that?
AC: No we can get it in a second. Let’s see. Were there any other things that you had come to
mind that you remember, or even just positive stories or anything about Bird Haven?
BR: Well the only thing else, in the ladies, it was like, about everybody was relation. It was two
sisters, in fact it was two, two bunches of two, four sisters that two of them were, you know,
sisters. It was Hazel and Pearl Ryman were sisters and then Lena and I can’t remember her
sisters name, and, you know, it was like family worked there. And all of us knew everybody. You
know we were all friends and it was just nice. And I think about today if I had to go apply for a
job, I don’t do computers, I don’t know how I’d get one.
AC: So a lot different than jobs now?
BR: Oh yeah. Of course that’s been, well I’m 85 and I was probably 18 when I, or maybe 19,
when I got that job.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah. It’s a lot different from now when it was back then. A lot different. In fact, people
helped each other more back then than they do now.
AC: Yeah. So we also were told about just like, the many different types of equipment that was
there. Were you mostly just using the sander? Because you talked about sanding. Did you use
any of the other equipment?
BR: No, no we did it by hand, but then like I said, they had a machine for the, to spray the bowls
with the, whatever they used, I forget what it was, you know, to make the, so that especially
the bowls, so they wouldn’t, so you could use them.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But so they sprayed everything. I mean it was some kind of finish they put on them.
AC: Alright.
BR: And they had the one item that it was really, really pretty was a cobbler’s bench coffee
table.
AC: Oh.
BR: It was probably that big but it was expensive.
AC: I’m sure.
BR: But it had a lot of little parts, you know, and was really a lot to do to get it to, so it was able
to sell. I mean it was a lot of work to it.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But it was nice.
AC: So definitely high quality objects?
BR: Mhm. And we had tables, had folding tables. Oh and we had a lot of stuff. Right now I can’t,
I wish I had kept a diary. More than once I get mad at myself I didn’t but it was quite a few
items that they made. And that lazy Susan was a good seller.
AC: Awesome.
BR: Now what, what did you say this is going to go into?
AC: This is, will eventually end up in the, I think Shenandoah Library archives.
BR: Oh okay.
AC: The people who own Bird Haven now are who kind of got this kick started, they wanted to
find out more about it.
BR: They come to our church once in a while.
AC: Oh really.
BR: Uh huh. See her grandmother, we have a, we did our ramp in her memory when she died.
AC: Okay.
BR: Because we got a lot of, people sent a lot of money in her memory. And she’s buried in our
cemetery.
AC: Oh wow. Wow. So you know the new owners fairly well?
BR: Well I’ve met them, they’ve been to our church a couple times, yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah they’re very nice. Have you met them?
AC: No, no not yet.
BR: They’re young. Or to me they’re young, not as young as you, but they’re young.
AC: I’m trying to think, you answered all of them really well, you kind of combined some of my
questions together. The people that worked there that were local, do they still live in the area,
do you know? I know you said you keep in contact with one of the men but…
BR: He lives in Edinburgh and the lady that worked there too. She worked there I guess after I
quit, she lives in Woodstock.
AC: Okay.
BR: And we had one lady when she left and went to the bank, she worked in the bank for I don’t
know how many years. So a lot of them went different places and got jobs.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Yeah. Were there any stories you had about working there, things that, I don’t know,
because I, just really anything that you can think of that we haven’t touched on even just small
things?
BR: Well I got one but I better not tell it.
TO: Definitely tell it.
BR: Well I told you that our boss had two, two cocker spaniels. Well we were allowed a break in
the morning and a break in the afternoon and also we had I think was a half hour for lunch. And
we could always see when he was coming cause those dogs would be ahead of him. Course we
didn’t, I mean, we didn’t, take advantage of him. We did our breaks like we were supposed to
and everything. But it was kind of a joke, you know, that he, when we’d see those dogs, he was
behind some place. Yeah. But he was nice, he was a very nice boss.
AC: So, at Bird Haven, what was it, how was it kind of set up? Was it in like open fields, was it
lots of trees around, where the buildings close together, what was like the layout?
BR: Yeah the buildings were all close together, you all haven’t been back there?
AC: No.
BR: Well you should go back there. Yeah the buildings were all like in a, you know, together,
and it, the post office was back there at that time too. And the house was over, kind of over in
the field from the buildings and it was a stream run through it. It was a beautiful place. And the
one couple that worked there, they lived on a house across the stream right close to the
building where we worked.
AC: Wow so people lived real close?
BR: Yeah. And then it was another house down from, down further in the woods, it’s a lot of
woods, around there. And it was a house that was real, built real funny. It had, the doors were
double, you know what I mean, like the Dutch. Remember, you probably remember how the
Dutch, when you went to school you learned that stuff, how they had their doors. Well it had a
door like that and it, but it sat empty for years and years and years. I don’t know what they did
with it now. If they repaired it and somebody lives in it or what, I don’t know. My son goes
down there right often, him and another man from the community and I mean they talk to the
people that own it. Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now you’re not going to have all of this on it?
AC: Well we can cut parts. And if there’s anything that you want us to go back and cut out we
have a release form that you can just make note of that there.
BR: So you’ll send me a copy of what this sounds like?
AC: If you want a copy we can get you a copy.
BR: Yeah I’d like to, yeah.
AC: Yeah, yeah we can definitely get you a copy.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Oh I had something else.
BR: I see Sam’s made a friend.
TO: Yeah. I’ve been playing with him this whole time. He’s really adorable. I wanted to try to
keep the meowing out of it so I just started petting him. Team work.
AC: So you said you were born and raised right up the road?
BR: Right down there.
AC: Right down there?
BR: In that next house.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: My daughter lives there now and of course she put a big addition to it.
AC: How do you feel about that?
BR: Well its nice, but now she wishes she wouldn’t, because now she lives by herself.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: But when she did that she was married and had, he had two children they were small and
she did that so that everybody would have a bedroom and everything but now they’re all gone.
AC: Okay.
BR: So she’s by herself and it’s a big house to keep up for heat and stuff.
AC: Yeah. So you said that the owners of Bird Haven, they lived on the property, so were they
involved in the day to day a lot or were they kind of more, you guys just ran everything?
BR: Oh you mean back when we were…
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah they lived on the property.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But Mr. and Mrs. Clark, they didn’t come over and check on anything, Spizz did it all the
time, her son. Yeah. I don’t know what Mr. Clark, if he was in some kind of government or what,
they probably retired back there. I don’t know really the true, the first story. Probably you could
talk to Mr. Polk he can probably tell you.
AC: Okay.
BR: When it started and everything. I only learned after I got married. And ‘cause his
grandmother was working there.
AC: Okay. And you mentioned a lot of woods, or a lot of wood, trees and stuff, growing on the
property?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Is that where they got the wood for their products, was actually from the wood on the
property there?
BR: You know what I don’t know but I bet, I guess they did.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now back that road is some houses built. You came by there, you probably saw where it
said Bird Haven or…
AC: We may have.
TO: Maybe yeah.
AC: Yeah we may have, I think, I think…
BR: Right in the middle was like a flower, flower arrangement and then it was a sign.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: I think it said Bird Haven. Well back that road is where it is and I don’t know if they own all
that now where those houses or built or what. But I know there’s some houses built down in
there.
AC: Okay.
BR: People from the city, you know, came out and bought the lots and built.
AC: Yeah. Okay. So when people, you said people would come and stay at the cottages nearby
would they just come and kind of walk around? Were there any, you said they could buy, were
there gift shops? How, how did the visitors interact with what was going on in day to day work?
BR: Well my father-in-law drove a taxi and brought people out from Mount Jackson. Back then
the train run and the bus also. And he would bring people out and they would stay all summer
and then the Bryce’s had transportation that they would take them places to see different
things in the community and well they had activities all the time. They had dances, they had,
my husband set up pins for the bowling alley and they’d have picnics and all kinds of stuff like
that. It was, you know, to keep them all entertained cause back then it wasn’t like it is now. You
could go, people didn’t have cars like they do now. In fact, when I grew up it was only one car in
this area, the rest of us walked to church. But it was good, I mean it was good for us, one family
would start and then we’d keep falling in and all of us walked together to church.
AC: So it was a tight knit community then?
BR: Yeah, yeah. It’s really changed though. I mean we have a lot of people now that you know,
come from the city and different places and build and I used to know everybody that lived
around here but now I don’t.
AC: Okay. The Bryce cottages, the Bryce Hill cottages, when did those show up, when were they
built?
BR: Oh gosh. I don’t know, it was before I ever went up there. But now they’re, the cottages are
all closed and they have what they call the Bryce Hill, now, they have condos and town houses
on it. And but there’s no recreation or nothing any more, they don’t run it anymore it’s just
people, it’s just private people, that come up and stay like maybe the weekend or when they
have a vacation or whatever, and then of course they have things down at Bryce Resort that,
you know, they can do.
AC: So did you know if, once those were built, was there a big difference in people coming in
and visiting since there were those cottages?
BR: Oh yeah, it must be, I believe that at the post office now its 500 boxes and back then it was
probably, I think Bayse was 2 people.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: Now it’s really, it’s really growing up.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah and we used to have a post office down here. Course we’d have to walk to it to get
our mail which was about probably a mile.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah and it was a store and a post office.
AC: Yeah? Interesting. I’m trying, you covered so many of them. You’ve been really helpful. So I
know you said that the people working there could buy the different products, was that a
common thing, did people, for people to buy the things that they’d built?
BR: Yeah I think everybody that worked there probably had some, bought some items yeah.
Yeah I can’t remember, I don’t think we got a cut on anything. We paid whatever he, whatever
the price was. But yeah I’m sure a lot of them had. Probably a lot more than I got. I didn’t buy
everything that we made. But I did have that cradle, magazine cradle, and then that table that
was a, what did they call that, a, it was real strong. It was a table you know you put in front of
your couch.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Yeah. And when you were working was it like an hourly job?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah we worked, I guess it was like eight to four or something like that but we only got paid
twice a month I think. We didn’t get paid every week.
AC: And then, I know you said when you were working there they had switched away from the
toys and the puzzles. Do you know if that switch kind of increased production, if people were
happy with that switch?
BR: I don’t have no idea about that.
AC: Okay.
BR: ‘Cause it was, when I started it, they weren’t doing any of that. The puzzles or any of that,
anything.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now like I say, Mr. Polk can probably tell you about that. ‘Cause he worked there before I
did.
AC: Yeah. And you said the men and the women were kind of separate because you were doing
different types of jobs. So what types of things would the men be doing versus what you guys
were doing?
BR: Well like cutting out the things and then one of them would glue them together and I guess
like you said I never, I don’t know, but I’d imagine some of them probably had to cut the timber
or whatever for them. Or I don’t know if they got, bought the lumber or I, I can’t remember
about that. They might have bought the lumber and then the men had to cut out everything
and you know that was their job.
AC: Okay. And we kind of talked about this some already, but after Bird Haven closed I know
you said people had cars and they were driving elsewhere but was it something that people
were disappointed about it closing? Did they kind of wish it had stayed open or how did people
view that?
BR: Yeah I think they would have liked for it to have stayed open, yeah. But I’m pretty sure Mr.
and Mrs. Clark both died and Spizz was by himself and he didn’t want to I guess mess with it.
Like he moved to Harrisonburg and he was a lawyer I guess to start out with and went back to
being a lawyer.
AC: Yeah? Okay. I think that’s most of my questions, can you think of anything else?
TO: No.
AC: You’ve touched on a lot of it, is there anything else that just, you wanted, anything that you
can remember that you want people to know about Bird Haven?
BR: No, except it’s a beautiful place and its, it’s a landmark. And I, you know, I hope people will
remember it. Cause it was nice, it was nice to work there. And I don’t know, it seems like every
things changing to the little person goes out of business. Yeah. I guess I would say probably, I
don’t believe it was over probably 20 people or maybe 25 working there when I worked there
because it was, I would say, probably 10 women and at least 10 men, maybe more. I don’t
know anymore. I would have to sit down and think who all worked there.
AC: So it wasn’t a big…
BR: It wasn’t a real big...
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah. And I did help to pack, to mail stuff. Everything had a you know, number you know,
that’s what we went by to pack.
AC: Okay so did they have people that specifically worked in the post office, or was it just that
the people who did that also helped with the post office?
BR: The ones that owned Bird Haven did the post office too.
AC: Okay. But did they have like you guys send out everything, like you were saying, or did they
have people that their specific job was in the post office?
BR: No just the owners worked in the post office.
AC: Okay they just worked there.
BR: See now, when I worked at the store in Bayse well it was about five of us, only one person
was allowed in the post office to work. So if anybody came in for their mail, we couldn’t get it, it
had to be the person that was, I guess they, I don’t know how they picked them, but anyhow it
was one person.
AC: Okay.
BR: Of course I think it’s changed now. ‘Cause when the woman owned the store she did the
post office then, and she worked by herself and I mean it was a lot of work because Bryce had
already come in and a lot of people already moved in. And after she retired they had three or
four people and they had computers. She didn’t have a computer.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: She had to at the end of the day figure up everything.
AC: Wow. So very different?
BR: Yeah. Yeah. Those computers are nice, but then again sometimes they’re not so nice.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: And you said since it was kind of smaller, you said maybe ten women and ten men, was that
because they wanted to keep it smaller or did a lot of people want to work there or…
BR: Well I don’t know about that, I guess we had enough to do what they needed done. All the
items they made they had enough to do it.
AC: Okay.
BR: I really don’t know, but I know it wasn’t a big operation, I mean, I know it wasn’t 50 people,
I’d say it wasn’t over 25. I might be wrong though, maybe Leroy Polk can tell you.
AC: So when you weren’t working, what sorts of things did you do around here?
BR: Well back then wasn’t a lot of cars, everyone didn’t have a car. You just did things that was
close. Church things, there was a lot of things going on at church. And community and we had a
lot of things you don’t do now. We used to have a, what do you call that when you hide things
and you have kids to hunt them, and we’d do that in the woods and around in the community.
And they’d have to go all over to find them. That was the church. We had the youth group and
every year we’d have a what do you call it a, I can’t think of what it’s called but we’d hide stuff
and they had to find it.
AC: Like a scavenger hunt, is that…
BR: Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah and also back then we went on the hay rides, man would come with his tractor and
with hay on it and we’d all go and then cook hotdogs and stuff like that but you don’t do
nothing like that no more. Now kids all they do is watch TV or that doggone phone stuff. My
daughter-in-law is a, or ex-daughter-in-law, is a teacher. She teaches, you’re not supposed to
call them retarded but mentally challenged, and she has a rule, and a lot of them are smart,
that their phones have to go on the shelf when they come in, they’re not allowed to have their
phones while schools going on. But she says you walk the halls and them kids all walk with their
heads down they’re doing their phones.
AC: Yeah, I believe it.
BR: I think that’s getting to be like a addiction, I really do.
AC: Yeah.
TO: Yeah it gets bad, I can see that.
AC: Definitely. Definitely lots of different things.
BR: Yeah. You can’t sit down and carry on a conversation with anybody anymore, they’ve got
those phones so you might as well forget it.
AC: Yeah. Trying to think.
BR: So now you’re, are you studying, what are you studying to be?
AC: I’m studying history.
BR: History. Oh that’s interesting.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah.
AC: So I think things like this are great.
BR: Yeah.
AC: And they’re important.
BR: Yeah they are. You know what, we have a book club here now and it was my turn this
Sunday but it’s been too many things going on I couldn’t get to the library to do what I wanted
to do. And I’m going to talk on cemeteries all over the Shenandoah County.
AC: Oh cool.
BR: And also funeral homes, you’d be surprised how many funeral homes there are.
AC: Really?
BR: That people don’t know they were funeral homes. They’re just a building.
AC: Yeah.
BR: And so I was going to talk on that and also how funerals have changed.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Since I was growing up. And people don’t realize that.
AC: Yeah.
BR: So I…
AC: If you want to talk about that now you can, the ways that they’ve changed you can feel free
to talk about that.
BR: Well like when I was a teenager when anybody would die down at our church, a lot of
people around here didn’t have phones then. When someone would die they had a code that if
it was a man they’d toll the bell so many times, everybody in the community could hear it and
we would know it was a death. If it was a woman, it was so many times, or a child. And back
then well, they didn’t take them to the funeral home. They did to embalm them but then they
brought them back to the house and we’d go to the house. And you’d have flower girls, might
have ten, fifteen flower girls, and everyone would go to the house. And they’d have a service
there and then take them to the church, well they’d have the casket up front, open, during the
whole service, and then they’d have everybody to view them at the very end. Which made it a
long funeral. I’m glad they quit that. But it’s just how different things are. Now, now at the
church down here now, they have them at the back, the casket at the back. And you go in and
do that and when it’s time for the funeral they close it up and take it up front and that’s it. And
no flower girls or nothing like they used to.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Its really different.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah but a lot of things are better. Yeah.
AC: That’s really interesting. I didn’t know, I didn’t know a lot of that.
BR: And its, its, now my uncle, is 102 years old.
AC: Wow, does he live around here?
BR: He lives over at Conicville.
AC: Oh ok.
BR: And he calls me, he hasn’t called me today so I’m beginning to wonder what’s wrong with
him. Sometimes he calls me three times a day.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: And where his house is, it was a funeral home on that road and people don’t know that.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Cause now it’s just a house. And its sitting empty.
AC: Interesting.
BR: So that’s what, I’m interested too to check to see where all the funeral homes were. And
over when you go back, when you hit Bayse and go down that hill, you go up the hill and then
down the hill, there was one right there.
AC: Really?
BR: There were what used to be called wetlands but now it’s a car place. That was a funeral
home.
AC: Interesting.
BR: And back then also they took them in buggies. They had you know horses.
AC: Yeah?
BR: They would take them in. Yeah. Yeah and you know, it’s something to think about. I wish I’d
have wrote down a lot of stuff cause now I’m 85 years old and its nobody I can ask anything
anymore cause everybody is gone. Up at our church one day we were cleaning and we found in
a closet something wrapped up, it was like a handle, and we were curious what it was. Its been
there for years and nobody’s bothered with it. So we got curious and we unwrapped it and all it
was was like a handle for an axe but it was real nice, smooth and everything. And now we don’t
know what it was for or who wrapped it or put it back there or anything.
AC: Wow.
BR: Cause all the old folks from our church is gone.
AC: Yeah wow. It’s always interesting to wonder why things like that are there.
BR: Yeah and we have like a tray and I’m sure that was made at Bird Haven, ‘cause one of the
men that belonged to our church worked at Bird Haven and he made a lot of the things in our
church when we built a new church in 1954. And he made a lot of things like benches and for
rooms and Sunday school rooms and stuff. And it’s a tray with a handle and we can’t figure that
out and it’s got little grooves in it like you would set a glass. It’s got maybe eight of those, so we
think it was how they served communion.
AC: Oh.
BR: That the glasses were in those little grooves and they just passed the tray around, but we
don’t know what it is.
AC: Wow that’s really interesting.
BR: We put it out on display all the time when we have homecomings and stuff hoping
somebody will know what it is.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But like I say, all our old members are gone.
AC: Yeah, don’t have those people to ask anymore.
BR: No, no.
AC: And you mentioned, just then, with the man that worked at Bird Haven and he built some
stuff for the new church. So did the church and other places in the community, did they go to
bird haven for things they needed, do you know? Or was it just a connection, he happened to
work there and he went to the church?
BR: Yeah he did it, probably he did it for nothing for the church.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: But he did a lot of wood work of different things for the church, our church. Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now he has one son living yet, the man that did all that, Richard Barb.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: I don’t know what he could tell you.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Now he lived as a, when he grew up as a child and everything and going and went to school,
he, cross the stream there where we worked, that’s, his parents lived there and it was three
children they all lived there. He might be able to tell you something.
AC: Okay. He might be on our list, ‘cause we have a list of people and I don’t know who all is on
there. So he might be on there but…
BR: Might be, Richard Barb is his name.
AC: Okay we’ll write him down.
BR: And he lives back, Sarah lane. When you go up from here to Bayse.
AC: Okay.
BR: On the left hand side, its back in the woods where he lives.
AC: And you said besides the owners, that was the only other family that lived kind of, that
close, like right across the stream? Or were there other people that lived pretty close like that?
BR: Well, like I said everybody lived not too far you know, some of them lived over in Mount
Clifton or Mount Hermon over, that’s on 263 after you leave Bayse.
AC: Yeah.
BR: That’s about as far as any of them lived that worked back there.
AC: Okay. Alright. Well I think that’s about everything that we had so unless there’s anything
else that you wanted to share?
BR: Well I think I’ve said enough.
AC: Just making sure, because anything you want to share is, we’d love to hear it.
BR: Well I hope you get a good turn out and everything for it.
AC: Yeah.
BR: And put it on record that people and maybe even my great grandson might be interested
when he gets growing.
AC: Yeah. And that’s, that’s why we’re doing this, to document it and that’s why we wanted to
make sure anything, if there’s anything we didn’t cover, if there’s anything else you wanted to
be remembered about Bird Haven and your experiences there.
BR: Now like I said that Betty Dillinger, I think she went to work after I quit, I can’t remember,
she wasn’t working there when I was working there. It was either before I started or after I quit,
I didn’t know she worked there. But they told me that was one, there was three people living
yet that worked there.
AC: Okay, interesting.
BR: And Leroy Polk he lives in Edinburg.
AC: Yeah. Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Awesome, well I think…
BR: Would you all like a bottle of water or something?
AC: I’m okay…
TO: I’m fine, thank you.
BR: You sure?
HIST 441
April 11, 2017
This interview was conducted with Betty Richards on March 22, 2017 by Ashlen Clark
with assistance from Tiernan O’Rourke on the topic of Bird Haven.
AC: This is Ashlen Clark interviewing…
BR: Betty Richards…
AC: About Bird Haven. Mrs. Richards how did you come to work at Bird Haven?
BR: Well it was right after I got married. The first job I had. And it was close to where I lived, I
could walk. And also my husband’s grandmother worked at the, for the family. She did their
cooking and cleaned the house and that’s how I got my job. And I think I worked probably
maybe two years. I’m not sure, I can’t remember. But then I had my first child and I, I didn’t
work anymore for a while.
AC: Alright. You said you lived close by, you could walk. So did, you, knew about Bird Haven
before you started working there?
BR: Oh yes, yeah.
AC: Was it a place that before you started working there you visited a lot, or is it just something
that you didn’t really visit, or how was that?
BR: Well I visited with my husband’s grandmother I helped her sometimes to clean or whatever.
And I knew what the place looked like and everything. Yeah.
AC: Was it, the family that lived there, was it just the family that owned Bird Haven or were
there other people that lived there?
BR: No it was just the family that owned Bird Haven, it was Mr. and Mrs. Clark, and Mrs. Clark
was married before and she had two sons. And the one son run the place, John Gray Paul is his
name, and we called him Spizz.
AC: Why did you call him that?
BR: I don’t know, he had a nickname, someone gave him that nickname and I don’t know how,
why, and he always when he come, he, he would stay at the house a lot and come over and
check on, you know, what we were doing and everything. And he had two cocker spaniels and
every time we’d see them cocker spaniels we knew he was coming.
AC: That’s really great.
BR: He was a good, he was a good boss.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: So did you have a lot of interaction with him?
BR: Well, yeah. And nothing like any parties or anything but he was real friendly and nice.
AC: So when you were working there what was your role? What was your typical day like?
BR: Well it was about, I’d say 8 or 10 women in one, one building and the men would make the
things and they would bring them to us and we had to sand them and then they’d have to be
stained and then it would have to be sanded again and then a shellac or something put on it.
And then from there it would go up to the, it was a post office back there then. It would go up
to that building and the orders would be carried out and packed and sent.
AC: Okay. So when you, when the packages were sent out were they mostly local people that
were ordering or further away or do you know?
BR: No it was lot of different states.
AC: Okay so a fairly big production?
BR: Yeah, yeah. And we made a lot of things. I had a lot of them but I moved about eight times
since I’ve been married and every time I moved I guess I left something. ‘Cause, or I gave it
away. So, and I gave my minister a tray that he wanted it had the label on it.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: And he died and we told his son to be sure and let us get, buy it back but we didn’t get it.
AC: Shame when that happens. When you were working in the shops, what was your, what
specifically did you do with the pieces?
BR: I helped to sand the things off and stain them. And then we had a lady that, she had a, you
know, a machine that she would spray them, spray the things.
AC: Okay. So did you come to work there because it was some place close or because you had a
connection or what brought you to start working there?
BR: Well I, this was back in 1948 when I got married and wasn’t too many jobs around that area
and because it was close and they needed somebody and I applied for it and I got it. Yeah.
AC: Awesome. So how would you describe the environment like within the community and
within the shops? Was it a good place to work? Did you enjoy your time there?
BR: Oh yes. Everybody that work there was real friendly and we all got along good. Yeah we had
a lot of fun, I mean, even though we all worked, we still had a lot of fun.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Were they mostly people that you knew outside of work from the community, or did you
meet them at work? Were they local people?
Br: Most of them were local. Now some of them came from over in Mount Clifton which is not
too far from Bayse. And well now the one man lives in Edinburgh, but he didn’t live there when
he worked there. But I think most of them were local.
AC: Okay. What kind of impact on the community would you say that Bird Haven had since it
employed a lot of local people? Was it positive for the community?
BR: Yeah it was. Yeah it gave people work and make a living and I worked, back then I made 80
dollars a month working there. They only paid, I don’t think they paid every week, it was like
every two weeks.
AC: Okay. So for the people who weren’t local and like main community members, how did
they react to bird haven? Did they, like, people come visit from outside or how did, how did
Bird Haven interact with further away…
BR: Well back then Bryce, they called it Bryce Hillside Cottages, was open and a lot of people,
that was busy all summer long. And of course people that would come there and to Orkney also
would visit local places. And I’m sure they, that he sold a lot of things right there.
AC: Okay so it was, you could actually buy things from Bird Haven rather than ordering them
and it being mailed to you?
BR: Yeah. And the workers could buy, you know, anything. I can’t remember if we got a
discount or not but I, I had quite a few things. I had a magazine cradle, and I had a saw book
table but I don’t know what happened to those. Well I gave some of them to my mother-in-law
and I had trays and we made lazy Susans but I never, that I didn’t want. But I got a few things. I
got those little stools and some trays. And we made salad bowls and forks and the little bowls
to go with it. Those were a good seller.
AC: Oh wow, yeah.
BR: Yeah. They were a good item, they sold good.
AC: So what was the most common thing ordered, or the most popular items?
BR: Probably the salad bowls.
AC: Okay.
BR: ‘Cause it was a big bowl and then the little ones and then the salad fork and spoon. And it
was all made out of wood.
AC: Wow.
BR: And of course there was instructions with that with how to do it because you, you couldn’t
do too much water on that wood.
AC: Right. So what kind of instructions would come along with that?
BR: Well like every once and a while to oil, just your regular oil that you use to cook with, to
maybe just clean it with that. And dry it good.
AC: Okay. Cool. We had a little bit of background information that we were given and it talked
about how some of the items that were made represented like the heritage of people in the
community. Did you see that represented through the stuff that was made?
BR: Well, when, I don’t know what year Bird Haven really started but they made toys and also
puzzles. Now we weren’t making those when I started.
AC: Okay.
BR: I never saw any of those.
AC: Okay.
BR: They, they’d already sold them all and changed over to different, the other different things
that we were making.
AC: Okay so it was, they didn’t make everything, like all of that, their entire span? They kind of
transitioned into the other products?
BR: Yeah they changed from the puzzles and the toys and, to more things that were I guess
more useful.
AC: Interesting.
BR: Now I don’t know who changed it or why, but I. (phone ringing) Uh oh. Excuse me a minute.
AC: You’re fine.
TO: Go ahead.
BR: Hello? Can I call you back I’m being interviewed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright bye. That was my
minister.
AC: Oh. That’s fine.
BR: Now did that upset…
AC: No it can be cut out, and we can just put it right back together.
BR: Oh well you, could you hear what I said on the phone or anything?
AC: No I couldn’t, I couldn’t hear you.
BR: Okay. I mean, I hope it didn’t mess you up.
AC: No, no, no, no. We can, when we put it on the computer we can take out parts.
BR: Oh okay.
AC: So we can, if you want us to take that out, we can just take it out and put it right back
together. How did having this job at Bird Haven as your first job, how did that effect future jobs
you had or just anything?
BR: Oh well I don’t know. I guess I just learned to work. ‘Cause I was young and, I don’t know, it
was just nice and everybody got along good and everything just sure is different now.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah. And let’s see, from there I didn’t work for a good while, then, because I had four
children and I didn’t work until I had that last one and then I worked at Bryce and I worked at a
apple place where we graded apples. And I don’t know I just learned to work.
AC: Yeah. So but it was a good, good experience as a first job?
BR: Oh yeah, yeah it was nice. I mean everybody got along good. We just had a lot of, a lot of
fun.
AC: Yeah, good.
BR: In fact, the one man you’re going to interview we picked on him a lot.
AC: Really? Why did you pick on him?
BR: Oh just, nice, it wasn’t mean or anything.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But he was really, he really was good to get along with. Yeah I still once and a while talk to
him.
AC: Good. So are you still, you said you talk to him, but are you, are you in contact with a lot of
people that you worked with?
(phone ringing)
BR: Excuse me again.
AC: You’re fine.
BR: Hello? Betty? I’m being interviewed now, I’ll call you back. Alright. That was a lady from my
church.
AC: Oh, you’re a popular woman. Do you still keep in contact with the people you worked with?
I know you mentioned the one man.
BR: Yeah, I don’t, I talk to him once and a while and once in a while I get to see him but I don’t
visit much anymore. I guess I’ve gotten lazy and I’m old and I just like to stay at home.
AC: Yeah that’s fair.
BR: But once in a while I do talk to him on the phone.
AC: Okay that’s good. So even after you stopped working, you said you stopped to have kids.
Did you stay local, did you stay involved with the community?
BR: Yeah I stayed local for a good while and then we moved to Maryland and lived down there,
I think it was like seven or nine years, and then I didn’t like the city. So I moved back and I lived
up there for a couple years and then we built this house, this was my home-place. That big
house down there was where I was born and raised.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: And so we built this and I just, we moved back here. And I worked up at that country store
that’s closed for, oh I don’t know, probably close to twenty years.
AC: Wow.
BR: And yeah I stayed in the area.
AC: Yeah.
BR: And I go to that church up there.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Did you see a difference in the local area once Bird Haven closed and stopped providing
jobs there?
BR: No, I don’t think so because a lot of people had cars and they would, you know, go a
distance to work and a lot of people would even go down to the city from our area to work
everyday.
AC: Oh wow. Okay. When we were talking to one of our other interviewees, they mentioned
how after Bird Haven closed there was kind of an in between period but then in more recent
years there’s kind of been an uptick in the interest in the items that were created at Bird Haven.
Have you noticed anything about that?
BR: You mean, since the new owners took over and bought the place and they started having a
lot of animals and ducks and chickens and stuff.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: Yeah it’s been interesting.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah and also the people that bought it, their, it was the woman’s grandmother that was
from this area. And her husband, she and her husband I think it was, had a little resort on past
Bird Haven. It was called Shenandoah Alum springs. And so see the, it all kind of dates back to,
she, she was her, her grandparents and parents were from this area, that own it now.
AC: Oh so have you been back down there since it closed?
BR: One time. After, let’s see, yeah I’ve been there since they took over.
AC: Okay.
BR: ‘Cause it was, it’s a big difference in what, now they have it, ‘cause it, they did a lot of
different things. In fact, they moved the big house.
AC: Really?
BR: That Mr. and Mrs. Clark lived in. Now I haven’t been back since they moved that, I’d like to
see where it is.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah it was a beautiful place and it was a lot of land and it was a couple houses on it.
AC: So were those houses occupied at the time?
BR: No, maybe one of them was but other than that no.
AC: Okay. When you went back were all the old buildings still there?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Did they still have stuff in them?
BR: Yeah, in fact, they said when they closed it was a lot of the, like, the bowls and other things
that were made was still in there that they had never, never got rid of. Now I don’t know what
they did with it or if they still have it or what.
AC: Yeah. Do you know why Bird Haven closed?
BR: No. Mr. John Gray Paul went to, moved to Harrisonburg. Well let’s see, I guess his mother
and his step-father probably died and then I guess he didn’t want to keep it up. I really don’t
know. I can’t remember. But he went to Harrisonburg and he was a lawyer.
AC: Oh.
BR: I think he’s still living, I’m not sure.
AC: Okay. Interesting.
BR: Mr. Polk could probably tell you, the, the man that worked there too that’s still living, he
could probably tell you if Mr., if John Gray Paul is still living. I don’t, I can’t remember if he is or
not.
AC: Okay.
BR: I think if he is he’d be pretty old.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: So you said you have some of the products from Bird Haven. Do you know, has there been a
bigger interest in those items since they’re no longer being produced?
BR: Well I think anybody that sees them at, some of them come up at auctions, they have, we
have an auction every week down in Edinburgh. And I’m sure some of those come up in
auctions and yeah people are interested in it. Now that one right there my, my daughter’s
friend gave to her and it’s a name on the back of who owned it.
AC: Oh.
BR: And I guess it was probably bought at a sale. And what it is I don’t know. If its…
AC: This one?
BR: Yeah. If it’s supposed to be a bowl, I don’t know what it’s supposed to be.
AC: Interesting.
BR: I, maybe I need to take that down to Mr. Polk and let him look at it. See if he can tell me
what it is because he worked there before I started.
AC: Okay. Awesome.
TO: Do you want me to get that?
AC: No we can get it in a second. Let’s see. Were there any other things that you had come to
mind that you remember, or even just positive stories or anything about Bird Haven?
BR: Well the only thing else, in the ladies, it was like, about everybody was relation. It was two
sisters, in fact it was two, two bunches of two, four sisters that two of them were, you know,
sisters. It was Hazel and Pearl Ryman were sisters and then Lena and I can’t remember her
sisters name, and, you know, it was like family worked there. And all of us knew everybody. You
know we were all friends and it was just nice. And I think about today if I had to go apply for a
job, I don’t do computers, I don’t know how I’d get one.
AC: So a lot different than jobs now?
BR: Oh yeah. Of course that’s been, well I’m 85 and I was probably 18 when I, or maybe 19,
when I got that job.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah. It’s a lot different from now when it was back then. A lot different. In fact, people
helped each other more back then than they do now.
AC: Yeah. So we also were told about just like, the many different types of equipment that was
there. Were you mostly just using the sander? Because you talked about sanding. Did you use
any of the other equipment?
BR: No, no we did it by hand, but then like I said, they had a machine for the, to spray the bowls
with the, whatever they used, I forget what it was, you know, to make the, so that especially
the bowls, so they wouldn’t, so you could use them.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But so they sprayed everything. I mean it was some kind of finish they put on them.
AC: Alright.
BR: And they had the one item that it was really, really pretty was a cobbler’s bench coffee
table.
AC: Oh.
BR: It was probably that big but it was expensive.
AC: I’m sure.
BR: But it had a lot of little parts, you know, and was really a lot to do to get it to, so it was able
to sell. I mean it was a lot of work to it.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But it was nice.
AC: So definitely high quality objects?
BR: Mhm. And we had tables, had folding tables. Oh and we had a lot of stuff. Right now I can’t,
I wish I had kept a diary. More than once I get mad at myself I didn’t but it was quite a few
items that they made. And that lazy Susan was a good seller.
AC: Awesome.
BR: Now what, what did you say this is going to go into?
AC: This is, will eventually end up in the, I think Shenandoah Library archives.
BR: Oh okay.
AC: The people who own Bird Haven now are who kind of got this kick started, they wanted to
find out more about it.
BR: They come to our church once in a while.
AC: Oh really.
BR: Uh huh. See her grandmother, we have a, we did our ramp in her memory when she died.
AC: Okay.
BR: Because we got a lot of, people sent a lot of money in her memory. And she’s buried in our
cemetery.
AC: Oh wow. Wow. So you know the new owners fairly well?
BR: Well I’ve met them, they’ve been to our church a couple times, yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah they’re very nice. Have you met them?
AC: No, no not yet.
BR: They’re young. Or to me they’re young, not as young as you, but they’re young.
AC: I’m trying to think, you answered all of them really well, you kind of combined some of my
questions together. The people that worked there that were local, do they still live in the area,
do you know? I know you said you keep in contact with one of the men but…
BR: He lives in Edinburgh and the lady that worked there too. She worked there I guess after I
quit, she lives in Woodstock.
AC: Okay.
BR: And we had one lady when she left and went to the bank, she worked in the bank for I don’t
know how many years. So a lot of them went different places and got jobs.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Yeah. Were there any stories you had about working there, things that, I don’t know,
because I, just really anything that you can think of that we haven’t touched on even just small
things?
BR: Well I got one but I better not tell it.
TO: Definitely tell it.
BR: Well I told you that our boss had two, two cocker spaniels. Well we were allowed a break in
the morning and a break in the afternoon and also we had I think was a half hour for lunch. And
we could always see when he was coming cause those dogs would be ahead of him. Course we
didn’t, I mean, we didn’t, take advantage of him. We did our breaks like we were supposed to
and everything. But it was kind of a joke, you know, that he, when we’d see those dogs, he was
behind some place. Yeah. But he was nice, he was a very nice boss.
AC: So, at Bird Haven, what was it, how was it kind of set up? Was it in like open fields, was it
lots of trees around, where the buildings close together, what was like the layout?
BR: Yeah the buildings were all close together, you all haven’t been back there?
AC: No.
BR: Well you should go back there. Yeah the buildings were all like in a, you know, together,
and it, the post office was back there at that time too. And the house was over, kind of over in
the field from the buildings and it was a stream run through it. It was a beautiful place. And the
one couple that worked there, they lived on a house across the stream right close to the
building where we worked.
AC: Wow so people lived real close?
BR: Yeah. And then it was another house down from, down further in the woods, it’s a lot of
woods, around there. And it was a house that was real, built real funny. It had, the doors were
double, you know what I mean, like the Dutch. Remember, you probably remember how the
Dutch, when you went to school you learned that stuff, how they had their doors. Well it had a
door like that and it, but it sat empty for years and years and years. I don’t know what they did
with it now. If they repaired it and somebody lives in it or what, I don’t know. My son goes
down there right often, him and another man from the community and I mean they talk to the
people that own it. Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now you’re not going to have all of this on it?
AC: Well we can cut parts. And if there’s anything that you want us to go back and cut out we
have a release form that you can just make note of that there.
BR: So you’ll send me a copy of what this sounds like?
AC: If you want a copy we can get you a copy.
BR: Yeah I’d like to, yeah.
AC: Yeah, yeah we can definitely get you a copy.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Oh I had something else.
BR: I see Sam’s made a friend.
TO: Yeah. I’ve been playing with him this whole time. He’s really adorable. I wanted to try to
keep the meowing out of it so I just started petting him. Team work.
AC: So you said you were born and raised right up the road?
BR: Right down there.
AC: Right down there?
BR: In that next house.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: My daughter lives there now and of course she put a big addition to it.
AC: How do you feel about that?
BR: Well its nice, but now she wishes she wouldn’t, because now she lives by herself.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: But when she did that she was married and had, he had two children they were small and
she did that so that everybody would have a bedroom and everything but now they’re all gone.
AC: Okay.
BR: So she’s by herself and it’s a big house to keep up for heat and stuff.
AC: Yeah. So you said that the owners of Bird Haven, they lived on the property, so were they
involved in the day to day a lot or were they kind of more, you guys just ran everything?
BR: Oh you mean back when we were…
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah they lived on the property.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But Mr. and Mrs. Clark, they didn’t come over and check on anything, Spizz did it all the
time, her son. Yeah. I don’t know what Mr. Clark, if he was in some kind of government or what,
they probably retired back there. I don’t know really the true, the first story. Probably you could
talk to Mr. Polk he can probably tell you.
AC: Okay.
BR: When it started and everything. I only learned after I got married. And ‘cause his
grandmother was working there.
AC: Okay. And you mentioned a lot of woods, or a lot of wood, trees and stuff, growing on the
property?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Is that where they got the wood for their products, was actually from the wood on the
property there?
BR: You know what I don’t know but I bet, I guess they did.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now back that road is some houses built. You came by there, you probably saw where it
said Bird Haven or…
AC: We may have.
TO: Maybe yeah.
AC: Yeah we may have, I think, I think…
BR: Right in the middle was like a flower, flower arrangement and then it was a sign.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: I think it said Bird Haven. Well back that road is where it is and I don’t know if they own all
that now where those houses or built or what. But I know there’s some houses built down in
there.
AC: Okay.
BR: People from the city, you know, came out and bought the lots and built.
AC: Yeah. Okay. So when people, you said people would come and stay at the cottages nearby
would they just come and kind of walk around? Were there any, you said they could buy, were
there gift shops? How, how did the visitors interact with what was going on in day to day work?
BR: Well my father-in-law drove a taxi and brought people out from Mount Jackson. Back then
the train run and the bus also. And he would bring people out and they would stay all summer
and then the Bryce’s had transportation that they would take them places to see different
things in the community and well they had activities all the time. They had dances, they had,
my husband set up pins for the bowling alley and they’d have picnics and all kinds of stuff like
that. It was, you know, to keep them all entertained cause back then it wasn’t like it is now. You
could go, people didn’t have cars like they do now. In fact, when I grew up it was only one car in
this area, the rest of us walked to church. But it was good, I mean it was good for us, one family
would start and then we’d keep falling in and all of us walked together to church.
AC: So it was a tight knit community then?
BR: Yeah, yeah. It’s really changed though. I mean we have a lot of people now that you know,
come from the city and different places and build and I used to know everybody that lived
around here but now I don’t.
AC: Okay. The Bryce cottages, the Bryce Hill cottages, when did those show up, when were they
built?
BR: Oh gosh. I don’t know, it was before I ever went up there. But now they’re, the cottages are
all closed and they have what they call the Bryce Hill, now, they have condos and town houses
on it. And but there’s no recreation or nothing any more, they don’t run it anymore it’s just
people, it’s just private people, that come up and stay like maybe the weekend or when they
have a vacation or whatever, and then of course they have things down at Bryce Resort that,
you know, they can do.
AC: So did you know if, once those were built, was there a big difference in people coming in
and visiting since there were those cottages?
BR: Oh yeah, it must be, I believe that at the post office now its 500 boxes and back then it was
probably, I think Bayse was 2 people.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: Now it’s really, it’s really growing up.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah and we used to have a post office down here. Course we’d have to walk to it to get
our mail which was about probably a mile.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah and it was a store and a post office.
AC: Yeah? Interesting. I’m trying, you covered so many of them. You’ve been really helpful. So I
know you said that the people working there could buy the different products, was that a
common thing, did people, for people to buy the things that they’d built?
BR: Yeah I think everybody that worked there probably had some, bought some items yeah.
Yeah I can’t remember, I don’t think we got a cut on anything. We paid whatever he, whatever
the price was. But yeah I’m sure a lot of them had. Probably a lot more than I got. I didn’t buy
everything that we made. But I did have that cradle, magazine cradle, and then that table that
was a, what did they call that, a, it was real strong. It was a table you know you put in front of
your couch.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Yeah. And when you were working was it like an hourly job?
BR: Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah we worked, I guess it was like eight to four or something like that but we only got paid
twice a month I think. We didn’t get paid every week.
AC: And then, I know you said when you were working there they had switched away from the
toys and the puzzles. Do you know if that switch kind of increased production, if people were
happy with that switch?
BR: I don’t have no idea about that.
AC: Okay.
BR: ‘Cause it was, when I started it, they weren’t doing any of that. The puzzles or any of that,
anything.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now like I say, Mr. Polk can probably tell you about that. ‘Cause he worked there before I
did.
AC: Yeah. And you said the men and the women were kind of separate because you were doing
different types of jobs. So what types of things would the men be doing versus what you guys
were doing?
BR: Well like cutting out the things and then one of them would glue them together and I guess
like you said I never, I don’t know, but I’d imagine some of them probably had to cut the timber
or whatever for them. Or I don’t know if they got, bought the lumber or I, I can’t remember
about that. They might have bought the lumber and then the men had to cut out everything
and you know that was their job.
AC: Okay. And we kind of talked about this some already, but after Bird Haven closed I know
you said people had cars and they were driving elsewhere but was it something that people
were disappointed about it closing? Did they kind of wish it had stayed open or how did people
view that?
BR: Yeah I think they would have liked for it to have stayed open, yeah. But I’m pretty sure Mr.
and Mrs. Clark both died and Spizz was by himself and he didn’t want to I guess mess with it.
Like he moved to Harrisonburg and he was a lawyer I guess to start out with and went back to
being a lawyer.
AC: Yeah? Okay. I think that’s most of my questions, can you think of anything else?
TO: No.
AC: You’ve touched on a lot of it, is there anything else that just, you wanted, anything that you
can remember that you want people to know about Bird Haven?
BR: No, except it’s a beautiful place and its, it’s a landmark. And I, you know, I hope people will
remember it. Cause it was nice, it was nice to work there. And I don’t know, it seems like every
things changing to the little person goes out of business. Yeah. I guess I would say probably, I
don’t believe it was over probably 20 people or maybe 25 working there when I worked there
because it was, I would say, probably 10 women and at least 10 men, maybe more. I don’t
know anymore. I would have to sit down and think who all worked there.
AC: So it wasn’t a big…
BR: It wasn’t a real big...
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah. And I did help to pack, to mail stuff. Everything had a you know, number you know,
that’s what we went by to pack.
AC: Okay so did they have people that specifically worked in the post office, or was it just that
the people who did that also helped with the post office?
BR: The ones that owned Bird Haven did the post office too.
AC: Okay. But did they have like you guys send out everything, like you were saying, or did they
have people that their specific job was in the post office?
BR: No just the owners worked in the post office.
AC: Okay they just worked there.
BR: See now, when I worked at the store in Bayse well it was about five of us, only one person
was allowed in the post office to work. So if anybody came in for their mail, we couldn’t get it, it
had to be the person that was, I guess they, I don’t know how they picked them, but anyhow it
was one person.
AC: Okay.
BR: Of course I think it’s changed now. ‘Cause when the woman owned the store she did the
post office then, and she worked by herself and I mean it was a lot of work because Bryce had
already come in and a lot of people already moved in. And after she retired they had three or
four people and they had computers. She didn’t have a computer.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: She had to at the end of the day figure up everything.
AC: Wow. So very different?
BR: Yeah. Yeah. Those computers are nice, but then again sometimes they’re not so nice.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Yeah.
AC: And you said since it was kind of smaller, you said maybe ten women and ten men, was that
because they wanted to keep it smaller or did a lot of people want to work there or…
BR: Well I don’t know about that, I guess we had enough to do what they needed done. All the
items they made they had enough to do it.
AC: Okay.
BR: I really don’t know, but I know it wasn’t a big operation, I mean, I know it wasn’t 50 people,
I’d say it wasn’t over 25. I might be wrong though, maybe Leroy Polk can tell you.
AC: So when you weren’t working, what sorts of things did you do around here?
BR: Well back then wasn’t a lot of cars, everyone didn’t have a car. You just did things that was
close. Church things, there was a lot of things going on at church. And community and we had a
lot of things you don’t do now. We used to have a, what do you call that when you hide things
and you have kids to hunt them, and we’d do that in the woods and around in the community.
And they’d have to go all over to find them. That was the church. We had the youth group and
every year we’d have a what do you call it a, I can’t think of what it’s called but we’d hide stuff
and they had to find it.
AC: Like a scavenger hunt, is that…
BR: Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Yeah and also back then we went on the hay rides, man would come with his tractor and
with hay on it and we’d all go and then cook hotdogs and stuff like that but you don’t do
nothing like that no more. Now kids all they do is watch TV or that doggone phone stuff. My
daughter-in-law is a, or ex-daughter-in-law, is a teacher. She teaches, you’re not supposed to
call them retarded but mentally challenged, and she has a rule, and a lot of them are smart,
that their phones have to go on the shelf when they come in, they’re not allowed to have their
phones while schools going on. But she says you walk the halls and them kids all walk with their
heads down they’re doing their phones.
AC: Yeah, I believe it.
BR: I think that’s getting to be like a addiction, I really do.
AC: Yeah.
TO: Yeah it gets bad, I can see that.
AC: Definitely. Definitely lots of different things.
BR: Yeah. You can’t sit down and carry on a conversation with anybody anymore, they’ve got
those phones so you might as well forget it.
AC: Yeah. Trying to think.
BR: So now you’re, are you studying, what are you studying to be?
AC: I’m studying history.
BR: History. Oh that’s interesting.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah.
AC: So I think things like this are great.
BR: Yeah.
AC: And they’re important.
BR: Yeah they are. You know what, we have a book club here now and it was my turn this
Sunday but it’s been too many things going on I couldn’t get to the library to do what I wanted
to do. And I’m going to talk on cemeteries all over the Shenandoah County.
AC: Oh cool.
BR: And also funeral homes, you’d be surprised how many funeral homes there are.
AC: Really?
BR: That people don’t know they were funeral homes. They’re just a building.
AC: Yeah.
BR: And so I was going to talk on that and also how funerals have changed.
AC: Yeah?
BR: Since I was growing up. And people don’t realize that.
AC: Yeah.
BR: So I…
AC: If you want to talk about that now you can, the ways that they’ve changed you can feel free
to talk about that.
BR: Well like when I was a teenager when anybody would die down at our church, a lot of
people around here didn’t have phones then. When someone would die they had a code that if
it was a man they’d toll the bell so many times, everybody in the community could hear it and
we would know it was a death. If it was a woman, it was so many times, or a child. And back
then well, they didn’t take them to the funeral home. They did to embalm them but then they
brought them back to the house and we’d go to the house. And you’d have flower girls, might
have ten, fifteen flower girls, and everyone would go to the house. And they’d have a service
there and then take them to the church, well they’d have the casket up front, open, during the
whole service, and then they’d have everybody to view them at the very end. Which made it a
long funeral. I’m glad they quit that. But it’s just how different things are. Now, now at the
church down here now, they have them at the back, the casket at the back. And you go in and
do that and when it’s time for the funeral they close it up and take it up front and that’s it. And
no flower girls or nothing like they used to.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Its really different.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Yeah but a lot of things are better. Yeah.
AC: That’s really interesting. I didn’t know, I didn’t know a lot of that.
BR: And its, its, now my uncle, is 102 years old.
AC: Wow, does he live around here?
BR: He lives over at Conicville.
AC: Oh ok.
BR: And he calls me, he hasn’t called me today so I’m beginning to wonder what’s wrong with
him. Sometimes he calls me three times a day.
AC: Oh wow.
BR: And where his house is, it was a funeral home on that road and people don’t know that.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Cause now it’s just a house. And its sitting empty.
AC: Interesting.
BR: So that’s what, I’m interested too to check to see where all the funeral homes were. And
over when you go back, when you hit Bayse and go down that hill, you go up the hill and then
down the hill, there was one right there.
AC: Really?
BR: There were what used to be called wetlands but now it’s a car place. That was a funeral
home.
AC: Interesting.
BR: And back then also they took them in buggies. They had you know horses.
AC: Yeah?
BR: They would take them in. Yeah. Yeah and you know, it’s something to think about. I wish I’d
have wrote down a lot of stuff cause now I’m 85 years old and its nobody I can ask anything
anymore cause everybody is gone. Up at our church one day we were cleaning and we found in
a closet something wrapped up, it was like a handle, and we were curious what it was. Its been
there for years and nobody’s bothered with it. So we got curious and we unwrapped it and all it
was was like a handle for an axe but it was real nice, smooth and everything. And now we don’t
know what it was for or who wrapped it or put it back there or anything.
AC: Wow.
BR: Cause all the old folks from our church is gone.
AC: Yeah wow. It’s always interesting to wonder why things like that are there.
BR: Yeah and we have like a tray and I’m sure that was made at Bird Haven, ‘cause one of the
men that belonged to our church worked at Bird Haven and he made a lot of the things in our
church when we built a new church in 1954. And he made a lot of things like benches and for
rooms and Sunday school rooms and stuff. And it’s a tray with a handle and we can’t figure that
out and it’s got little grooves in it like you would set a glass. It’s got maybe eight of those, so we
think it was how they served communion.
AC: Oh.
BR: That the glasses were in those little grooves and they just passed the tray around, but we
don’t know what it is.
AC: Wow that’s really interesting.
BR: We put it out on display all the time when we have homecomings and stuff hoping
somebody will know what it is.
AC: Yeah.
BR: But like I say, all our old members are gone.
AC: Yeah, don’t have those people to ask anymore.
BR: No, no.
AC: And you mentioned, just then, with the man that worked at Bird Haven and he built some
stuff for the new church. So did the church and other places in the community, did they go to
bird haven for things they needed, do you know? Or was it just a connection, he happened to
work there and he went to the church?
BR: Yeah he did it, probably he did it for nothing for the church.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: But he did a lot of wood work of different things for the church, our church. Yeah.
AC: Okay.
BR: Now he has one son living yet, the man that did all that, Richard Barb.
AC: Oh okay.
BR: I don’t know what he could tell you.
AC: Yeah.
BR: Now he lived as a, when he grew up as a child and everything and going and went to school,
he, cross the stream there where we worked, that’s, his parents lived there and it was three
children they all lived there. He might be able to tell you something.
AC: Okay. He might be on our list, ‘cause we have a list of people and I don’t know who all is on
there. So he might be on there but…
BR: Might be, Richard Barb is his name.
AC: Okay we’ll write him down.
BR: And he lives back, Sarah lane. When you go up from here to Bayse.
AC: Okay.
BR: On the left hand side, its back in the woods where he lives.
AC: And you said besides the owners, that was the only other family that lived kind of, that
close, like right across the stream? Or were there other people that lived pretty close like that?
BR: Well, like I said everybody lived not too far you know, some of them lived over in Mount
Clifton or Mount Hermon over, that’s on 263 after you leave Bayse.
AC: Yeah.
BR: That’s about as far as any of them lived that worked back there.
AC: Okay. Alright. Well I think that’s about everything that we had so unless there’s anything
else that you wanted to share?
BR: Well I think I’ve said enough.
AC: Just making sure, because anything you want to share is, we’d love to hear it.
BR: Well I hope you get a good turn out and everything for it.
AC: Yeah.
BR: And put it on record that people and maybe even my great grandson might be interested
when he gets growing.
AC: Yeah. And that’s, that’s why we’re doing this, to document it and that’s why we wanted to
make sure anything, if there’s anything we didn’t cover, if there’s anything else you wanted to
be remembered about Bird Haven and your experiences there.
BR: Now like I said that Betty Dillinger, I think she went to work after I quit, I can’t remember,
she wasn’t working there when I was working there. It was either before I started or after I quit,
I didn’t know she worked there. But they told me that was one, there was three people living
yet that worked there.
AC: Okay, interesting.
BR: And Leroy Polk he lives in Edinburg.
AC: Yeah. Okay.
BR: Yeah.
AC: Awesome, well I think…
BR: Would you all like a bottle of water or something?
AC: I’m okay…
TO: I’m fine, thank you.
BR: You sure?