File #4275: "Interview Transcript-1.pdf"
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Shen: Okay, for the formal start, I just briefly introduce myself. I'm Jiahao Shen and
I'm a History student in James Madison University and this oral history interview is
for the behalf of the Bird of Haven community, and the interview will be preserved at
the Shenandoah County Library. You have informed me before that you uncle used
to work there, so I say you have uncles that used to work at Bird Haven?
Moomaw: That's correct.
Shen: Based on what you know, what kind of the experience is this?
Moomaw: He worked there immediately out of high school, and I think they were
making the wooden balls and maybe some of the wooden furniture. I don't think -- as
I recall he told me that they were no longer making the toys and the puzzles and so
on.
Shen: Is that the uncle that's from your mother's side or father's?
Moomaw: My father's side.
Shen: Do you meet regularly? Have you met regularly especially at your young
age? Yes, at your young age?
Moomaw: He went to work there after he graduated from high school, and for a year
and married and moved to Ohio. We've maintained contact, but not very regularly I
guess.
Shen: Discuss about his experience, so how he's feeling about the life at Bird Haven
Community. He's not living there? He's only a worker there?
Moomaw: Right, he actually lived in Orchard Springs. I'm not sure that there are
many people that live there. To what extent it was a community, I don't know. I know
that there were several farm houses down there and there were families that lived
on the property, but not all the workers by any means did.
Shen: So you said all the workers a lot of people, I mean people even if they did not
live there, but still they come from the region that's pretty close from the neighboring
community?
Moomaw: Yes.
Shen: Okay. Your uncle as you said is also there, it's a very unique local
community, so it's not -- How do you think is diversity of the Bird Haven Community
based on what you know?
Moomaw: The diversity?
Shen: Yes.
Moomaw: It was just basically people who lived in the area, and they were pretty
much we all came from families that migrated from Pennsylvania in the 18th century.
They were farmers and so on. There may have been a few people that these were
German, they're called Pennsylvania Dutch. They may have been a few people that
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worked there who spoke some of the dialect, but it was say a very non-diverse
community.
Shen: Okay. The community is pretty local community. How you always think about
your uncle? What kind of person he is and what kind of career himself is very
impressive?
Moomaw: As I said, they married, moved to Ohio. I remember that we went to see
them and other more distant relatives there in 1953. I went to a Cleveland Indians
baseball game. Cleveland Indian and Boston Red Sox. They were major powers in
the American League in those days.
He went there for a factory job, because that type of jobs were not available here.
He grew up on a farm as would many of the people who worked at Bird Haven. I
don't know how long he had the factory job, but sort of, and I think they were still
relatives, he started working part-time for a farmer. There was a relative that also
worked for him. At that time, originally it was a draft horse farm, a working horse
farm and by the time he got there, the big thing was chickens and eggs and also I
guess wheat and soya beans and stuff like that and then cattle.
As he was given more and more responsibility, and eventually the man who owned
the farm had him in his will and he became a farmer in Ohio. [laughs] He didn't
actually end up in the industrial world.
Shen: Good. The things that's he did before and after, before he moved to Ohio and
after he moved to Ohio are pretty different. The job he did after he moved to Ohio is
more industrial or agricultural?
Moomaw: When he first moved, but then he quickly switched to within, probably 10
years to farming. There was a lot of -- as I said, we opened a farm here. Working at
the -- we sometimes called it the toy factory and we sometimes called it Bird Haven.
The wood working was something that -- We have some chairs that were made by,
would have been his great-grandfather. People made their own furniture quite a bit,
and I think some of that carried over into the Bird Haven Cooperative.
Shen: Have you ever been to the Bird Haven before it's closed?
Moomaw: I never went through the factory. It probably closed when I was eight or
10. There was a post office there, and I remember going back to the post office,
probably riding with my grandfather's brother who was the rural mail carrier. His post
office was established there, because of all of the items that they shipped out. Then
when it closed down, the post office didn't last much longer.
Shen: How is it like the Bird Haven operates or after it closed down, is that still
function, become functional or land just being sold?
Moomaw: The people who owned it lived there for a while after it closed down. I
knew their son or step-son, and my parents had a restaurant, general store kind of
thing that they operated in the summer. There was hamburgers and sandwiches and
beer. I guess where I met the step-son was at this place. He would come by and
have a beer or two, and he had a tab. I think I'm right that he paid with -- not every
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time or not always, but occasionally he paid with a piece of craft work from Bird
Haven. My brother I think has those -- I don't know if you've seen those, have you
seen the artifacts? The wooden bowls and so on.
My grandfather, one of the things that the workers could do was to use the
equipment’s after hours to make furniture and so on. My grandfather had a number
of side tables commissioned, he had some walnut lumber, he had those made there.
Shen: There are still some people, currently there are still some people living in the
Bird Haven?
Moomaw: The people that -- it was bought, they started a housing development.
There’s a housing development with 10 to 12 houses. They may -- they may have
sold some of their land to Bryce resort. It’s a ski resort, you know about Bryce resort.
It's a ski resort, there’s a lake that is built on what was Bird Haven property. They
use the water as a source to make snow.
Shen: That resort turned in an industrial company?
Moomaw: Resort?
Shen: Resort.
Moomaw: I think, I'm not sure about that.
Shen: You had Mentioned before, the people used to as the Bird Haven community
that used to make their own furniture. What are you saying about that relationship
with the outside community? If it is pretty much self-sufficient community. Do they
even have some economic financial business relationship with outside?
Moomaw: Well, at that time -- it was founded in the 1920s I think. At that time, there
was more of a cash economy that people would -- by that time, they would use the
catalogue. People would order things. There were a number of general stores
around and then at Mount Jackson there were fairly good size farm supply and
furniture stores. People would buy that certainly.
It wasn’t really self-sufficient at that time. Earlier, you still had a lot local crafts
probably in the late 1800s. A few of things still survive. One of the thing that a lot of
churches here do is make apple butter. Apple butter, it’s a spread for bread or
whatever. It’s a community project and I think that was done quite a bit. There were
people raised that picked a cause. When I was a kid, probably every family around
here butchered and had a very careful use of all of the parts of the hog. Some parts I
didn’t participate in, I probably should have but pickle pig's feet and all that which is
part of Pennsylvania Dutch tradition. Is that your question?
Shen: For the Bird Haven community, what scenes they make benefits for? It's for
the agricultural products or some handmade things? Which one make more
benefits?
Moomaw: At Bird Haven? Almost everything that they made at Bird Haven was sold
through catalogs and shipped out. The people in the area would get some of the
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people that work there. There are people who have some very nice collections of
things. It’s an item like the mount Jackson museum. If they can find an authenticated
piece from Bird Haven, they'll try to get it for their collection. There is a museum in
TimberVille which is in Rockingham county 20 miles from here that has a lot of the
equipment from the factory. Apparently what happened when the factory closed they
just one day they closed the doors and walked away and all of the equipments and
someone was there, and someone at the museum at TimberVille was alert enough
at that point to get a part of that collection.
Shen: For the neighbor community, for the community that's pretty close to there of
Bird Haven, were you supposed to have a lot of interactions with them? What kind of
things at Bird Haven surprised people mostly? What’s the general impression about
Bird haven when it was still in use or after it now became functional, what's the
general problem?
Moomaw: I think there was feeling somewhat of a feeling of loss. I think it had gone
through a gradual decline. I don’t know when -- the peak may have been in the late
20s and early 30s. I remember when my uncle worked there, by that time, it was a
stop gap thing for him. It wasn’t a source of very much employment I don't think.
There was a feeling of loss. I seem to remember that at one time there was a sign
there saying that it was a bird sanctuary which is maybe where the name came
from.
There were stories that it was founded by someone from New York I think and they
had some connections with the area and they thought that this could be an
opportunity to build up some local industry. There is a little bit of information about
that is in the Mount Jackson museum.
Shen: For the people who used to work there, is there children that still live in the
neighboring community or go pretty much outside. You have mentioned that your
uncle moved to Ohio. Is that a pretty common thing for the children that distanced
themselves from the previous worker.
Moomaw: I think probably a lot of them would have moved but there are also a lot
still living around here like Mr. Shamburg. I can think of three or four people that I
know that had relatives, parents or grandparents who worked there.
Shen: What is the common popular reason why the bird Haven wealth had failed?
Moomaw: I've never actually had any discussion of that. I guess it would be related
to after world war two, you've got the big manufacturing expansions and you got
more or less of this craftsman kind of a thing. If it were -- If it had managed to stay
operating, it might be something that would be -Moomaw: Yes. It's just -- I don't know. It seems like at one time it should have been
a fairly -- it was a fairly strong ongoing concern. I have a puzzle that I bought on
eBay that was in -- It was shipped back from England. They had some fairly wide
market.
Shen: When it was still functioning, the most perfect they made is from their
handmade crafts, not their agriculture.
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Moomaw: Right. Though basically, it was not agricultural at all. The people that
found it -- This is not great agricultural land around here. The people that found -that were looking were trying the develop industry that would provide opportunities
for the members of the local community. The industry -- the type of economic activity
in the area has always been tourism.
It fit in with that pretty well. If you drove through springs, you saw the big hotel. You
need to go back and look at that again. One of those buildings was built before the
Civil War. The big one was built just after maybe 1870s. It was -- They would have
three or four hundred people that would come. People stayed for a couple of weeks.
It was a typical spring resort kind of thing.
Not hot springs but mineral springs. And then there was another episcopal
conference center. It was founded in the 1920s which was about the same time that
Bird Haven was started. There was a lot of tourist activity. A lot of people -- including
the farmers depended a lot on these summer resort activities.
I remember seeing a letter once from a pastor who had served two or three
churches in the area. It was like, "Maybe you all be able to pay me now. I know that
there was a good summer at the hotel and should have some money.". That was the
major market activity other than agriculture.
Of course, in those days you had pretty large families. A lot of people migrated.
When my uncle moved to Ohio, he had moved to an area where he had an aunt and
four or five cousins, and the cousins had children. It was that kind of move.
Shen: Yes. It's been a tourist center, not for the Bird Haven but for the whole
community, has been a long period of time being tourist center. Why were the things
that such incoming of the tourist. It's a pretty substantial amount of tourists. They've
not saved the Bird Haven to continue to function because it still failed.
Moomaw: It's a good question. The last peak in the tourism particularly at the
springs hotel. There was also that Mr. Shamburg told you about, and there was also
the original Bryce Resort was basically a summer resort with some cottages and so
on.
There was a lot of that and the peak was during World War Two. After that,
automobiles and air conditioning and a little bit later the interstate. That type of
summer vacation just went away. I don't know that the tourism was providing
support for Bird Haven. I would think it would've been. I'd never thought about that.
Shen: Is that like absolutely, that Bird Haven was failed. Is that there like the
industry companies that established in this region.
Moomaw: Not a lot. It's, there's some. There was a lot of people. People would go
to DC, go to, move out of the area. Particularly, well you've got the orchards and
you've got there was an apple processing plant at Mount Jackson. Then they
developed. They had --They have a small industrial park and so on. It's never been
enough to provide enough employment for people to stay.
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Shen: Before it failed, has that put stable company, I mean pretty much the, pretty
amount of the families from generations worked there, is that pretty stable?
Moomaw: I think so. It was like probably like from 1925 to 1950s, so probably cut -there would be a couple of generations.
Shen: After it failed, what's the children of these family continue to work across the - If they don't have the option to work on the Bird Haven, what's they choose to do
commonly?
Moomaw: Well, they -- One of the things that there was a little -- they would have
continued to work in -- for the various resorts. There was very -- Right now, Shrine
Mont, which is the Episcopal Diocesan conference center and it's a combination of
the original Autumn Springs Hotel and the original conference center.
They probably, at this point, they have maybe ten to 15 year round employees.
That's something that has grown over the years. Probably, when they, in the '50s,
they probably would have been, for year round, they may have been six or eight.
There was that. But --A lot of people would go into the military and come out with
some sort of job training because he was in the military and he was at
communications and he worked for AT&T and he then became -- He came back and
was managing the resorts.
Another cousin who was in the military, worked for the government, started people -My generation was the first generation where there were many people that went to
college. There were a couple of families around here with a -- further back when the
kids went to college, and when you go to college, who knows what happens to you.
Again, earlier on, they were the large families and there was not enough economic
activity in the area to sustain that population.
Shen: How are you seeing about the failing of the Bird Haven community? What
indication it gives the -- marks the transformation of the local society or marks the
declining of the local economy. How is the thing goes?
Moomaw: How what?
Shen: What indication is its failing in regards to the local community? What kind of
impact it gives?
Moomaw: I think it was probably slow enough and not big enough that it probably
did not have a big impact. I don’t really know how many at their maximum, how
many employees they had, but I don’t think it would have been a big effect.
Shen: So it's more about the emotional loss. Is that pretty much influential part of
the local community.
Moomaw: Well, I think it was. I think it was an influential part and -- but it for such a
short period of time. See, I suspect maybe World War II depleted the work force and
the -- I don’t know if they may have had problems getting materials and that sort of
thing, and then, after World War II, there were these changes that affected the
tourism economy.
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I think it also, didn’t happen right away but Toys "R" Us took care of the toy factory
and IKEA took care of the furniture. Whatever was comparable to Toys "R" Us, and
IKEA back in the '50s, but you see the -- Now, I think that a handcrafted thing like
that could -- there are places where you find that and so, they tend to be more like
little art communities.
There's a place in Alexandria called the Torpedo Factory which is -- it was a torpedo
factory and now it's set up with lots of artisans. It attracts tourists, and it's that kind of
thing.
Shen: So such like the handcrafted traditions still continue on? You have the Bird
Haven crafts what's the feeling?
Moomaw: There are a number of people in the area that have maintained that
artisan thing. The mantle that we have was something that was -- I don’t remember
who it was, but there was someone in the area, a builder, felt that they could put
together something like that.
We had some people come in to build some bookshelves. So, there are some
people like that still around, guess they're working more independently.
Shen: I've some pictures of the Bird Haven. What do you think about these two?
Probably, they're handmade tools. Is that still common in local communities today?
Is that still the common thing or it’s just a -- mostly it disappear-- when the Bird
Haven was failed.
Moomaw: I've seen people serving salads with Bird Haven stuff, but I think it’s
something that’s been -- some crafts have been in the family so -- But yes, there are
a lot people in this area, close-by and then further out into the valley that have Bird
Haven stuff.
Shen: Have you seen this since when you were at a young age? Have you seen
these things that made by Bird Haven when you were at a young age? Because it's
not -Moomaw: Yes.
Shen: - okay. So, they sold some very frequently or at the -Moomaw: People in the community, yes, I don't know. A lot of people in the area
have -- I think it was quite popular.
Shen: I also have the picture of how -- What's made community very unique? Is that
-- this house -- Have you seen the house that's the Bird Haven? Such as a relation -how would you describe these houses? Is that pretty modern or is that pretty oldfashioned or something?
Moomaw: Well, this may have been an old house. I suspect this was maybe built for
the factory, I don’t know. There would be people who would. Did you show this to
Mr. Shemberg? I don’t know. This looks like it could have been like a log house, and
this looks like -- I think the Post Office was in one of those actually, and this is
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something like a barn, but it looks like it was built for the factory actually. This looks
like it could be very old, and these are not so old.
Shen: Therefore, we can say that the felling of the Bird Haven as the -- was the
point. What kind of the lifestyle compare before and after it's fallen. The lifestyle of
the -- not only about the Bird Haven, but also about the whole local community, what
change that accompany with the falling of the Bird Haven?
Moomaw: I don’t think it was big enough and fast enough that it had much of an
impact. There may have been a couple of families that were impacted by this.
Shen: What about the lives thereof -- If we put into the broader context, what about
the difference between their lives, their -- your generation and your parents'
generation?
Moomaw: And what was the -Shen: What's the difference, the big difference between your generation and your
parents' generation, because the Bird Haven actually failed at a very young age, as
you -- so I think the question could be raised, what kind of the difference overall,
between your generation and your parents' generation?
Moomaw: Again, I don’t think it was -- what happened was that you started having a
shift in the type of agriculture that was taking place after World War II. You've seen
all these old chicken coops around. That was, after World War II, that became -people who had been farming moved into that, the agricultural land around is -There are lots and lots of fields that were farmed 75 years ago with crops, that no
longer are. In this area, there's practically no one growing crops. The only type of
agriculture is beef cattle, and they grow hay, and chickens. Bird Haven, did not really
affect that. It might have been different if it had become a large -- maybe something
that employed 75 to 100 people, it could have had an effect on the number of people
living around here and that sort of thing.
There was a factory, a truss factory, that was in between here and Basye, that just
went out of business and it operated from maybe 1970 to 2010, I guess. It had
maybe as many as 100 employees at one time. It more than made up -- it wasn't
right away, but it more than made up for the loss at Bird Haven I think. I think
probably some of the people who worked there, their parents may have worked at
Bird Haven.
Shen: You have mentioned due it's role, it's place in society, due to its size, it's
pretty limited. It's loss has not really imposed a great impact on the community.
Moomaw: I think that's fair enough, yes.
Shen: What's the folklore or the popular memories, the popular stories, about Bird
Haven that you have heard about at a young age?
Moomaw: I think there was maybe at that -- I knew about it. I knew that it was
sometimes called the Toy Factory, but I didn't quite know why. I was surprised to
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learn, not long ago, about all the shipping that they did. About the post office being
opened, basically because of all the shopping they did.
Apparently, they printed books there at one time too. There was a lot of things going
on there that if it had continued, it would have been a nice addition to the
community. We've got the Bryce Resort, the ski resort. We've got the hotel, the
conference center, and so on.
I'm sure it was something that tourists, when they came, one of the things they did
was they went to Bird Haven to see -- Julie, your mom took people to Bird Haven?
Juile (Interview’s wife): Yes, she took them because they made beautiful maple
dishware and tableware.
Moomaw: This would have been about 1951, '52. Her parents came to the
conference center here, and she knew about -- I guess a little bit later too after you
all moved here?
Julie: Yes.
Moomaw: She was very interested in local artisans, and so on. That was one of the
things that people would do when they came to stay a week, they would go -Shen: So it used to be a large tourist center. Bird Haven also makes things unique,
like the animal figures. The center obviously failed. You said the local community
also continued to make such objects, or did they just disappear?
Moomaw: I don't think so. There may be some folks that do that woodworking but I
can't think of any.
Shen: There are displays in the museum in Mount Jackson. There's photos.
Moomaw: Of these things but I don't think anyone's continuing. I don't know of
anyone who -- there might be someone who does.
Shen: What's the nowadays the local artisans provide? What kind of the works they
provide? You've said your handmade crafts tradition does not continue.
Moomaw: I think furniture. I think there's some people -- Furniture and furniture
repair, and that sort of thing.
Shen: It turns out to be more practical products.
Moomaw: Yes, but with a slant toward the craftsmanship.
Shen: What about your own story, your ongoing background? What about the
environments, the communities that yourself grew up. What kind of community it is?
Moomaw: What type of community?
Shen: Yes, where you grew up.
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Moomaw: Where I grew up?
Shen: Yes.
Moomaw: It was Orkney Springs, is where it was. 10 years earlier, there were
probably a lot of kids around, but it had become a somewhat older community.
Basically, there was me and my cousins. It was very family-oriented. We made a lot
of trips -- not a lot of trips to Ohio, but we went to Ohio, my grandparents.
My grandmother had a brother in Florida, and they would go to Florida fairly
frequently, every other two or three times in ten years. We had relatives in D.C. We
would go there. Things that stand out, going to a baseball game, going to the zoo,
these were things that you did them infrequently enough that you remember the
particular trip.
Shen: You have mentioned that -- Are you retired or still teach?
Moomaw: I'm retired.
Shen: You used to be an economy professor at Oklahoma State University. Where
did you study for, before you become a professor?
Moomaw: I went to the University of Virginia. Then when I finished there, I went to
Princeton for graduate work. Then I went back and taught at Virginia for a short time,
and then I went to Oklahoma.
Shen: Is Oklahoma also a huge agricultural state?
Moomaw: Yes, it's like beef and wheat. I think there's some herb that's not legal to
produce, that sort of thing. [laughter]
Shen: What's a difference you observed that you can see between Oklahoma and
the local community?
Moomaw: We were in Stillwater, which is a town that is smaller than Harrisonburg.
The people, you have both the university community, which they tend to be similar
wherever you are, and I'm sure it's that way in Harrisonburg. That the faculty and so
on, they hang out together, I suspect. But again, Harrisonburg is bigger.
Then the people that we knew, it was a friendly little community, very much like here
I think.
Shen: From your view, from the economic view, how will you define the community,
it's economic situation, it's economic environment nowadays?
Moomaw: Here?
Shen: I will say like there -- at a young age, did the economic difference between -at a young age -- right after the felling of the Bird Haven and nowadays.
Moomaw: There's less agriculture. In addition related to being a tourist area, the
large retirement community. Again, the Bryce resort is organized around skiing,
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there's a golf course, very fine golf course I'm told, and then there a lot of people
that are -- that are retired there.
The Lions Club at in basing is one of the largest in the zone or the district and it's
growing and most communities, the Lions Club are small and shrinking and the
reason is this retirement community. We have people coming in from Northern
Virginia and also, mostly Northern Virginia I think, but also Richmond people that
come and ski and they're attracted by various kinds of amenities.
Then when they get here, they tend to affiliate, some of them, with community
organizations. The other big one is at the lake of the woods which I think is near
Fredericksburg and I think it's a retirement community. I think there's another big one
at Smith Mountain Lake which is again, has a retirement community aspect.
Now, the Bryce resort, that has -- Well I was going to say that that's almost a
hundred percent retirement community, but there are people who actually move
here and tend to keep employment in Northern Virginia and they can telecommute
and actually physically come here. I've been surprised to learn how much that takes
place.
So the retirement community has added -- the retirement aspect has added a lot to
the economic activity. So you've got people that are providing services when one of
the -- I think his father worked at Bird Haven. He does tree work. So he cleared this
area out here for our view and it's something he's done landscaping, that he's done
a lot of for the Bryce Retirement Community.
Shen: How are things there that people from the local community -- Do they have
some apparent difference especially when comparing with the other parts of the
Virginia like this Charlesville?
Moomaw: I don't know what, how -Shen: Do they have some apparent difference?
Moomaw: Yes. I think the similarities would be to the the rural areas outside of
Harrisonburg. The rural areas outside of Charlesville have millionaires. There's a
little bit of a dynamic between the people who retire here and the people who grew
up here. The people that retire here from Northern Virginia refer to the locals and the
locals refer to the people -- what do they call them?
Coming here is one thing. And if you've been here 30 years you might still be and
come here. We're a little bit different situation because I grew up here, my wife from
Woodstock then we moved out, then we came back. We were gone for 40 years. So
we count as local, but in some ways we also count as coming back.
So I'm involved with the Lions Club in Bryce which is mostly people who have retired
there maybe 10% percent from the people that have had deeper roots in the area.
Also the Veriton Club which is -- The Veritones are a community service
organization that was found in Virginia and they have a rural focus. So most of the
members of the Veriton Club tend to have people that have deep roots in here.
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Shen: For all the places that you have been experience and have been lived, study
or teach -- taught certainly for a while, which one you love most of it?
Moomaw: Which?
Shen: Which one you love most of it?
Moomaw: That I liked most?
Shen: Yes. You liked mostly?
Moomaw: This is where I chose to retire.
Moomaw: Okay. That says a lot.
Moomaw: It would be nice if we were a little closer to Northern Virginia. It's a little bit
of a -- you have to plan to go to North Virginia to do something. I think if we're going
to have family connections here too, I would think that maybe someplace near
Winchester or near Harrisonburg would have some advantages.
Again, Harrisonburg is like 45 minutes. Again it's a little bit of a trip, a lot of people
go frequently, but we've enjoyed coming back here.
Shen: How far is there from the place that you grew up.
Moomaw: You saw the house, go to the house and then you go past two driveways,
the house is where I grew up. [laughs] It's not very far.
Shen: So is that your neighbor? Actually your neighbors, the people you're familiar
with are still here?
Moomaw: The people know -- My parents sold it in the 60s I think. Now the people
that live there now are -- His parents retired at Bryce and he ended up here with his
wife. My grandmother also grew up there. So pretty deep family roots.
Shen: I think that's good.
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I'm a History student in James Madison University and this oral history interview is
for the behalf of the Bird of Haven community, and the interview will be preserved at
the Shenandoah County Library. You have informed me before that you uncle used
to work there, so I say you have uncles that used to work at Bird Haven?
Moomaw: That's correct.
Shen: Based on what you know, what kind of the experience is this?
Moomaw: He worked there immediately out of high school, and I think they were
making the wooden balls and maybe some of the wooden furniture. I don't think -- as
I recall he told me that they were no longer making the toys and the puzzles and so
on.
Shen: Is that the uncle that's from your mother's side or father's?
Moomaw: My father's side.
Shen: Do you meet regularly? Have you met regularly especially at your young
age? Yes, at your young age?
Moomaw: He went to work there after he graduated from high school, and for a year
and married and moved to Ohio. We've maintained contact, but not very regularly I
guess.
Shen: Discuss about his experience, so how he's feeling about the life at Bird Haven
Community. He's not living there? He's only a worker there?
Moomaw: Right, he actually lived in Orchard Springs. I'm not sure that there are
many people that live there. To what extent it was a community, I don't know. I know
that there were several farm houses down there and there were families that lived
on the property, but not all the workers by any means did.
Shen: So you said all the workers a lot of people, I mean people even if they did not
live there, but still they come from the region that's pretty close from the neighboring
community?
Moomaw: Yes.
Shen: Okay. Your uncle as you said is also there, it's a very unique local
community, so it's not -- How do you think is diversity of the Bird Haven Community
based on what you know?
Moomaw: The diversity?
Shen: Yes.
Moomaw: It was just basically people who lived in the area, and they were pretty
much we all came from families that migrated from Pennsylvania in the 18th century.
They were farmers and so on. There may have been a few people that these were
German, they're called Pennsylvania Dutch. They may have been a few people that
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worked there who spoke some of the dialect, but it was say a very non-diverse
community.
Shen: Okay. The community is pretty local community. How you always think about
your uncle? What kind of person he is and what kind of career himself is very
impressive?
Moomaw: As I said, they married, moved to Ohio. I remember that we went to see
them and other more distant relatives there in 1953. I went to a Cleveland Indians
baseball game. Cleveland Indian and Boston Red Sox. They were major powers in
the American League in those days.
He went there for a factory job, because that type of jobs were not available here.
He grew up on a farm as would many of the people who worked at Bird Haven. I
don't know how long he had the factory job, but sort of, and I think they were still
relatives, he started working part-time for a farmer. There was a relative that also
worked for him. At that time, originally it was a draft horse farm, a working horse
farm and by the time he got there, the big thing was chickens and eggs and also I
guess wheat and soya beans and stuff like that and then cattle.
As he was given more and more responsibility, and eventually the man who owned
the farm had him in his will and he became a farmer in Ohio. [laughs] He didn't
actually end up in the industrial world.
Shen: Good. The things that's he did before and after, before he moved to Ohio and
after he moved to Ohio are pretty different. The job he did after he moved to Ohio is
more industrial or agricultural?
Moomaw: When he first moved, but then he quickly switched to within, probably 10
years to farming. There was a lot of -- as I said, we opened a farm here. Working at
the -- we sometimes called it the toy factory and we sometimes called it Bird Haven.
The wood working was something that -- We have some chairs that were made by,
would have been his great-grandfather. People made their own furniture quite a bit,
and I think some of that carried over into the Bird Haven Cooperative.
Shen: Have you ever been to the Bird Haven before it's closed?
Moomaw: I never went through the factory. It probably closed when I was eight or
10. There was a post office there, and I remember going back to the post office,
probably riding with my grandfather's brother who was the rural mail carrier. His post
office was established there, because of all of the items that they shipped out. Then
when it closed down, the post office didn't last much longer.
Shen: How is it like the Bird Haven operates or after it closed down, is that still
function, become functional or land just being sold?
Moomaw: The people who owned it lived there for a while after it closed down. I
knew their son or step-son, and my parents had a restaurant, general store kind of
thing that they operated in the summer. There was hamburgers and sandwiches and
beer. I guess where I met the step-son was at this place. He would come by and
have a beer or two, and he had a tab. I think I'm right that he paid with -- not every
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time or not always, but occasionally he paid with a piece of craft work from Bird
Haven. My brother I think has those -- I don't know if you've seen those, have you
seen the artifacts? The wooden bowls and so on.
My grandfather, one of the things that the workers could do was to use the
equipment’s after hours to make furniture and so on. My grandfather had a number
of side tables commissioned, he had some walnut lumber, he had those made there.
Shen: There are still some people, currently there are still some people living in the
Bird Haven?
Moomaw: The people that -- it was bought, they started a housing development.
There’s a housing development with 10 to 12 houses. They may -- they may have
sold some of their land to Bryce resort. It’s a ski resort, you know about Bryce resort.
It's a ski resort, there’s a lake that is built on what was Bird Haven property. They
use the water as a source to make snow.
Shen: That resort turned in an industrial company?
Moomaw: Resort?
Shen: Resort.
Moomaw: I think, I'm not sure about that.
Shen: You had Mentioned before, the people used to as the Bird Haven community
that used to make their own furniture. What are you saying about that relationship
with the outside community? If it is pretty much self-sufficient community. Do they
even have some economic financial business relationship with outside?
Moomaw: Well, at that time -- it was founded in the 1920s I think. At that time, there
was more of a cash economy that people would -- by that time, they would use the
catalogue. People would order things. There were a number of general stores
around and then at Mount Jackson there were fairly good size farm supply and
furniture stores. People would buy that certainly.
It wasn’t really self-sufficient at that time. Earlier, you still had a lot local crafts
probably in the late 1800s. A few of things still survive. One of the thing that a lot of
churches here do is make apple butter. Apple butter, it’s a spread for bread or
whatever. It’s a community project and I think that was done quite a bit. There were
people raised that picked a cause. When I was a kid, probably every family around
here butchered and had a very careful use of all of the parts of the hog. Some parts I
didn’t participate in, I probably should have but pickle pig's feet and all that which is
part of Pennsylvania Dutch tradition. Is that your question?
Shen: For the Bird Haven community, what scenes they make benefits for? It's for
the agricultural products or some handmade things? Which one make more
benefits?
Moomaw: At Bird Haven? Almost everything that they made at Bird Haven was sold
through catalogs and shipped out. The people in the area would get some of the
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people that work there. There are people who have some very nice collections of
things. It’s an item like the mount Jackson museum. If they can find an authenticated
piece from Bird Haven, they'll try to get it for their collection. There is a museum in
TimberVille which is in Rockingham county 20 miles from here that has a lot of the
equipment from the factory. Apparently what happened when the factory closed they
just one day they closed the doors and walked away and all of the equipments and
someone was there, and someone at the museum at TimberVille was alert enough
at that point to get a part of that collection.
Shen: For the neighbor community, for the community that's pretty close to there of
Bird Haven, were you supposed to have a lot of interactions with them? What kind of
things at Bird Haven surprised people mostly? What’s the general impression about
Bird haven when it was still in use or after it now became functional, what's the
general problem?
Moomaw: I think there was feeling somewhat of a feeling of loss. I think it had gone
through a gradual decline. I don’t know when -- the peak may have been in the late
20s and early 30s. I remember when my uncle worked there, by that time, it was a
stop gap thing for him. It wasn’t a source of very much employment I don't think.
There was a feeling of loss. I seem to remember that at one time there was a sign
there saying that it was a bird sanctuary which is maybe where the name came
from.
There were stories that it was founded by someone from New York I think and they
had some connections with the area and they thought that this could be an
opportunity to build up some local industry. There is a little bit of information about
that is in the Mount Jackson museum.
Shen: For the people who used to work there, is there children that still live in the
neighboring community or go pretty much outside. You have mentioned that your
uncle moved to Ohio. Is that a pretty common thing for the children that distanced
themselves from the previous worker.
Moomaw: I think probably a lot of them would have moved but there are also a lot
still living around here like Mr. Shamburg. I can think of three or four people that I
know that had relatives, parents or grandparents who worked there.
Shen: What is the common popular reason why the bird Haven wealth had failed?
Moomaw: I've never actually had any discussion of that. I guess it would be related
to after world war two, you've got the big manufacturing expansions and you got
more or less of this craftsman kind of a thing. If it were -- If it had managed to stay
operating, it might be something that would be -Moomaw: Yes. It's just -- I don't know. It seems like at one time it should have been
a fairly -- it was a fairly strong ongoing concern. I have a puzzle that I bought on
eBay that was in -- It was shipped back from England. They had some fairly wide
market.
Shen: When it was still functioning, the most perfect they made is from their
handmade crafts, not their agriculture.
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Moomaw: Right. Though basically, it was not agricultural at all. The people that
found it -- This is not great agricultural land around here. The people that found -that were looking were trying the develop industry that would provide opportunities
for the members of the local community. The industry -- the type of economic activity
in the area has always been tourism.
It fit in with that pretty well. If you drove through springs, you saw the big hotel. You
need to go back and look at that again. One of those buildings was built before the
Civil War. The big one was built just after maybe 1870s. It was -- They would have
three or four hundred people that would come. People stayed for a couple of weeks.
It was a typical spring resort kind of thing.
Not hot springs but mineral springs. And then there was another episcopal
conference center. It was founded in the 1920s which was about the same time that
Bird Haven was started. There was a lot of tourist activity. A lot of people -- including
the farmers depended a lot on these summer resort activities.
I remember seeing a letter once from a pastor who had served two or three
churches in the area. It was like, "Maybe you all be able to pay me now. I know that
there was a good summer at the hotel and should have some money.". That was the
major market activity other than agriculture.
Of course, in those days you had pretty large families. A lot of people migrated.
When my uncle moved to Ohio, he had moved to an area where he had an aunt and
four or five cousins, and the cousins had children. It was that kind of move.
Shen: Yes. It's been a tourist center, not for the Bird Haven but for the whole
community, has been a long period of time being tourist center. Why were the things
that such incoming of the tourist. It's a pretty substantial amount of tourists. They've
not saved the Bird Haven to continue to function because it still failed.
Moomaw: It's a good question. The last peak in the tourism particularly at the
springs hotel. There was also that Mr. Shamburg told you about, and there was also
the original Bryce Resort was basically a summer resort with some cottages and so
on.
There was a lot of that and the peak was during World War Two. After that,
automobiles and air conditioning and a little bit later the interstate. That type of
summer vacation just went away. I don't know that the tourism was providing
support for Bird Haven. I would think it would've been. I'd never thought about that.
Shen: Is that like absolutely, that Bird Haven was failed. Is that there like the
industry companies that established in this region.
Moomaw: Not a lot. It's, there's some. There was a lot of people. People would go
to DC, go to, move out of the area. Particularly, well you've got the orchards and
you've got there was an apple processing plant at Mount Jackson. Then they
developed. They had --They have a small industrial park and so on. It's never been
enough to provide enough employment for people to stay.
5
Shen: Before it failed, has that put stable company, I mean pretty much the, pretty
amount of the families from generations worked there, is that pretty stable?
Moomaw: I think so. It was like probably like from 1925 to 1950s, so probably cut -there would be a couple of generations.
Shen: After it failed, what's the children of these family continue to work across the - If they don't have the option to work on the Bird Haven, what's they choose to do
commonly?
Moomaw: Well, they -- One of the things that there was a little -- they would have
continued to work in -- for the various resorts. There was very -- Right now, Shrine
Mont, which is the Episcopal Diocesan conference center and it's a combination of
the original Autumn Springs Hotel and the original conference center.
They probably, at this point, they have maybe ten to 15 year round employees.
That's something that has grown over the years. Probably, when they, in the '50s,
they probably would have been, for year round, they may have been six or eight.
There was that. But --A lot of people would go into the military and come out with
some sort of job training because he was in the military and he was at
communications and he worked for AT&T and he then became -- He came back and
was managing the resorts.
Another cousin who was in the military, worked for the government, started people -My generation was the first generation where there were many people that went to
college. There were a couple of families around here with a -- further back when the
kids went to college, and when you go to college, who knows what happens to you.
Again, earlier on, they were the large families and there was not enough economic
activity in the area to sustain that population.
Shen: How are you seeing about the failing of the Bird Haven community? What
indication it gives the -- marks the transformation of the local society or marks the
declining of the local economy. How is the thing goes?
Moomaw: How what?
Shen: What indication is its failing in regards to the local community? What kind of
impact it gives?
Moomaw: I think it was probably slow enough and not big enough that it probably
did not have a big impact. I don’t really know how many at their maximum, how
many employees they had, but I don’t think it would have been a big effect.
Shen: So it's more about the emotional loss. Is that pretty much influential part of
the local community.
Moomaw: Well, I think it was. I think it was an influential part and -- but it for such a
short period of time. See, I suspect maybe World War II depleted the work force and
the -- I don’t know if they may have had problems getting materials and that sort of
thing, and then, after World War II, there were these changes that affected the
tourism economy.
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I think it also, didn’t happen right away but Toys "R" Us took care of the toy factory
and IKEA took care of the furniture. Whatever was comparable to Toys "R" Us, and
IKEA back in the '50s, but you see the -- Now, I think that a handcrafted thing like
that could -- there are places where you find that and so, they tend to be more like
little art communities.
There's a place in Alexandria called the Torpedo Factory which is -- it was a torpedo
factory and now it's set up with lots of artisans. It attracts tourists, and it's that kind of
thing.
Shen: So such like the handcrafted traditions still continue on? You have the Bird
Haven crafts what's the feeling?
Moomaw: There are a number of people in the area that have maintained that
artisan thing. The mantle that we have was something that was -- I don’t remember
who it was, but there was someone in the area, a builder, felt that they could put
together something like that.
We had some people come in to build some bookshelves. So, there are some
people like that still around, guess they're working more independently.
Shen: I've some pictures of the Bird Haven. What do you think about these two?
Probably, they're handmade tools. Is that still common in local communities today?
Is that still the common thing or it’s just a -- mostly it disappear-- when the Bird
Haven was failed.
Moomaw: I've seen people serving salads with Bird Haven stuff, but I think it’s
something that’s been -- some crafts have been in the family so -- But yes, there are
a lot people in this area, close-by and then further out into the valley that have Bird
Haven stuff.
Shen: Have you seen this since when you were at a young age? Have you seen
these things that made by Bird Haven when you were at a young age? Because it's
not -Moomaw: Yes.
Shen: - okay. So, they sold some very frequently or at the -Moomaw: People in the community, yes, I don't know. A lot of people in the area
have -- I think it was quite popular.
Shen: I also have the picture of how -- What's made community very unique? Is that
-- this house -- Have you seen the house that's the Bird Haven? Such as a relation -how would you describe these houses? Is that pretty modern or is that pretty oldfashioned or something?
Moomaw: Well, this may have been an old house. I suspect this was maybe built for
the factory, I don’t know. There would be people who would. Did you show this to
Mr. Shemberg? I don’t know. This looks like it could have been like a log house, and
this looks like -- I think the Post Office was in one of those actually, and this is
7
something like a barn, but it looks like it was built for the factory actually. This looks
like it could be very old, and these are not so old.
Shen: Therefore, we can say that the felling of the Bird Haven as the -- was the
point. What kind of the lifestyle compare before and after it's fallen. The lifestyle of
the -- not only about the Bird Haven, but also about the whole local community, what
change that accompany with the falling of the Bird Haven?
Moomaw: I don’t think it was big enough and fast enough that it had much of an
impact. There may have been a couple of families that were impacted by this.
Shen: What about the lives thereof -- If we put into the broader context, what about
the difference between their lives, their -- your generation and your parents'
generation?
Moomaw: And what was the -Shen: What's the difference, the big difference between your generation and your
parents' generation, because the Bird Haven actually failed at a very young age, as
you -- so I think the question could be raised, what kind of the difference overall,
between your generation and your parents' generation?
Moomaw: Again, I don’t think it was -- what happened was that you started having a
shift in the type of agriculture that was taking place after World War II. You've seen
all these old chicken coops around. That was, after World War II, that became -people who had been farming moved into that, the agricultural land around is -There are lots and lots of fields that were farmed 75 years ago with crops, that no
longer are. In this area, there's practically no one growing crops. The only type of
agriculture is beef cattle, and they grow hay, and chickens. Bird Haven, did not really
affect that. It might have been different if it had become a large -- maybe something
that employed 75 to 100 people, it could have had an effect on the number of people
living around here and that sort of thing.
There was a factory, a truss factory, that was in between here and Basye, that just
went out of business and it operated from maybe 1970 to 2010, I guess. It had
maybe as many as 100 employees at one time. It more than made up -- it wasn't
right away, but it more than made up for the loss at Bird Haven I think. I think
probably some of the people who worked there, their parents may have worked at
Bird Haven.
Shen: You have mentioned due it's role, it's place in society, due to its size, it's
pretty limited. It's loss has not really imposed a great impact on the community.
Moomaw: I think that's fair enough, yes.
Shen: What's the folklore or the popular memories, the popular stories, about Bird
Haven that you have heard about at a young age?
Moomaw: I think there was maybe at that -- I knew about it. I knew that it was
sometimes called the Toy Factory, but I didn't quite know why. I was surprised to
8
learn, not long ago, about all the shipping that they did. About the post office being
opened, basically because of all the shopping they did.
Apparently, they printed books there at one time too. There was a lot of things going
on there that if it had continued, it would have been a nice addition to the
community. We've got the Bryce Resort, the ski resort. We've got the hotel, the
conference center, and so on.
I'm sure it was something that tourists, when they came, one of the things they did
was they went to Bird Haven to see -- Julie, your mom took people to Bird Haven?
Juile (Interview’s wife): Yes, she took them because they made beautiful maple
dishware and tableware.
Moomaw: This would have been about 1951, '52. Her parents came to the
conference center here, and she knew about -- I guess a little bit later too after you
all moved here?
Julie: Yes.
Moomaw: She was very interested in local artisans, and so on. That was one of the
things that people would do when they came to stay a week, they would go -Shen: So it used to be a large tourist center. Bird Haven also makes things unique,
like the animal figures. The center obviously failed. You said the local community
also continued to make such objects, or did they just disappear?
Moomaw: I don't think so. There may be some folks that do that woodworking but I
can't think of any.
Shen: There are displays in the museum in Mount Jackson. There's photos.
Moomaw: Of these things but I don't think anyone's continuing. I don't know of
anyone who -- there might be someone who does.
Shen: What's the nowadays the local artisans provide? What kind of the works they
provide? You've said your handmade crafts tradition does not continue.
Moomaw: I think furniture. I think there's some people -- Furniture and furniture
repair, and that sort of thing.
Shen: It turns out to be more practical products.
Moomaw: Yes, but with a slant toward the craftsmanship.
Shen: What about your own story, your ongoing background? What about the
environments, the communities that yourself grew up. What kind of community it is?
Moomaw: What type of community?
Shen: Yes, where you grew up.
9
Moomaw: Where I grew up?
Shen: Yes.
Moomaw: It was Orkney Springs, is where it was. 10 years earlier, there were
probably a lot of kids around, but it had become a somewhat older community.
Basically, there was me and my cousins. It was very family-oriented. We made a lot
of trips -- not a lot of trips to Ohio, but we went to Ohio, my grandparents.
My grandmother had a brother in Florida, and they would go to Florida fairly
frequently, every other two or three times in ten years. We had relatives in D.C. We
would go there. Things that stand out, going to a baseball game, going to the zoo,
these were things that you did them infrequently enough that you remember the
particular trip.
Shen: You have mentioned that -- Are you retired or still teach?
Moomaw: I'm retired.
Shen: You used to be an economy professor at Oklahoma State University. Where
did you study for, before you become a professor?
Moomaw: I went to the University of Virginia. Then when I finished there, I went to
Princeton for graduate work. Then I went back and taught at Virginia for a short time,
and then I went to Oklahoma.
Shen: Is Oklahoma also a huge agricultural state?
Moomaw: Yes, it's like beef and wheat. I think there's some herb that's not legal to
produce, that sort of thing. [laughter]
Shen: What's a difference you observed that you can see between Oklahoma and
the local community?
Moomaw: We were in Stillwater, which is a town that is smaller than Harrisonburg.
The people, you have both the university community, which they tend to be similar
wherever you are, and I'm sure it's that way in Harrisonburg. That the faculty and so
on, they hang out together, I suspect. But again, Harrisonburg is bigger.
Then the people that we knew, it was a friendly little community, very much like here
I think.
Shen: From your view, from the economic view, how will you define the community,
it's economic situation, it's economic environment nowadays?
Moomaw: Here?
Shen: I will say like there -- at a young age, did the economic difference between -at a young age -- right after the felling of the Bird Haven and nowadays.
Moomaw: There's less agriculture. In addition related to being a tourist area, the
large retirement community. Again, the Bryce resort is organized around skiing,
10
there's a golf course, very fine golf course I'm told, and then there a lot of people
that are -- that are retired there.
The Lions Club at in basing is one of the largest in the zone or the district and it's
growing and most communities, the Lions Club are small and shrinking and the
reason is this retirement community. We have people coming in from Northern
Virginia and also, mostly Northern Virginia I think, but also Richmond people that
come and ski and they're attracted by various kinds of amenities.
Then when they get here, they tend to affiliate, some of them, with community
organizations. The other big one is at the lake of the woods which I think is near
Fredericksburg and I think it's a retirement community. I think there's another big one
at Smith Mountain Lake which is again, has a retirement community aspect.
Now, the Bryce resort, that has -- Well I was going to say that that's almost a
hundred percent retirement community, but there are people who actually move
here and tend to keep employment in Northern Virginia and they can telecommute
and actually physically come here. I've been surprised to learn how much that takes
place.
So the retirement community has added -- the retirement aspect has added a lot to
the economic activity. So you've got people that are providing services when one of
the -- I think his father worked at Bird Haven. He does tree work. So he cleared this
area out here for our view and it's something he's done landscaping, that he's done
a lot of for the Bryce Retirement Community.
Shen: How are things there that people from the local community -- Do they have
some apparent difference especially when comparing with the other parts of the
Virginia like this Charlesville?
Moomaw: I don't know what, how -Shen: Do they have some apparent difference?
Moomaw: Yes. I think the similarities would be to the the rural areas outside of
Harrisonburg. The rural areas outside of Charlesville have millionaires. There's a
little bit of a dynamic between the people who retire here and the people who grew
up here. The people that retire here from Northern Virginia refer to the locals and the
locals refer to the people -- what do they call them?
Coming here is one thing. And if you've been here 30 years you might still be and
come here. We're a little bit different situation because I grew up here, my wife from
Woodstock then we moved out, then we came back. We were gone for 40 years. So
we count as local, but in some ways we also count as coming back.
So I'm involved with the Lions Club in Bryce which is mostly people who have retired
there maybe 10% percent from the people that have had deeper roots in the area.
Also the Veriton Club which is -- The Veritones are a community service
organization that was found in Virginia and they have a rural focus. So most of the
members of the Veriton Club tend to have people that have deep roots in here.
11
Shen: For all the places that you have been experience and have been lived, study
or teach -- taught certainly for a while, which one you love most of it?
Moomaw: Which?
Shen: Which one you love most of it?
Moomaw: That I liked most?
Shen: Yes. You liked mostly?
Moomaw: This is where I chose to retire.
Moomaw: Okay. That says a lot.
Moomaw: It would be nice if we were a little closer to Northern Virginia. It's a little bit
of a -- you have to plan to go to North Virginia to do something. I think if we're going
to have family connections here too, I would think that maybe someplace near
Winchester or near Harrisonburg would have some advantages.
Again, Harrisonburg is like 45 minutes. Again it's a little bit of a trip, a lot of people
go frequently, but we've enjoyed coming back here.
Shen: How far is there from the place that you grew up.
Moomaw: You saw the house, go to the house and then you go past two driveways,
the house is where I grew up. [laughs] It's not very far.
Shen: So is that your neighbor? Actually your neighbors, the people you're familiar
with are still here?
Moomaw: The people know -- My parents sold it in the 60s I think. Now the people
that live there now are -- His parents retired at Bryce and he ended up here with his
wife. My grandmother also grew up there. So pretty deep family roots.
Shen: I think that's good.
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