File #4285: "Oral History Transscript—Donald Moomaw.pdf"

Oral History Transcript of Donald Moomaw
By Tiernan O’Rourke

D= Donald Moomaw
T=Tiernan O’Rourke

T: Thank you for joining me. I am interviewing…
D: Donald Moomaw
T: About Bird Haven
D: Yes
T: So how old were you when you first visited Bird Haven?
D: Probably my middle teens; fifteen or sixteen.
T: Why did you go down there?
D: I probably went down there with my father to bring lumber to the big plainer. It’s the only
one in the area.
T: So you would bring the lumber to Bird Haven?
D: Yes.
T: And what did your father do?
D: He was working in the woods and was director of the conference center here also.
T: Was he a lumberjack of some sort?
D: No, he just had a truck and hauled lumber for some folks.
T: Oh alright. So you were around fifteen or sixteen, what did you like about Bird Haven?
D: Well, it seemed to be a unique place. I did not see much that was going on. I had seen the
things that they built, made like bowls, serving bowls and lazy Susans and things like that.
T: So you were just interested in seeing how they put it together.
D: Yes.
T: Were you interested in carpentry at all growing up?
D: Not a lot no.
T: Just thought it was pretty cool?

D: Yes.
T: So you started going with your father at about fifteen or sixteen, when did you start going by
yourself?
D: Probably sometime after sixteen because that’s when I had a driver’s license and I could get
myself there.
T: Would you go relatively often?
D: No, average once a month maybe.
T: Did you go more with your friends or by yourself?
D: Usually by myself.
T: And what kinds of things would you do there by yourself?
D: Well I would basically walk around and look, and I worked in the flower garden for the
owners of Bird Haven where they lived. I would pull weeds from the flower garden for them.
T: Did they live on the compound?
D: They lived on the compound yes.
T: So what was it like to work for these people?
D: It was fine, it was great. They treated me very well.
T: So they were nice people.
D: Oh yes, very nice people.
T: Was it a very lavish house?
D: No, I was never in it except on the porch or something or the kitchen. That’s as far as I was.
T: Do you remember the names of the people?
D: I think one of them, it was a son or step-son or something was John Gray Paul. And I can’t
remember the gentleman’s name and his wife who owned it. I assume someone on the lines’
name was Paul. (soft chuckle)
T: What was the stepson like? Was he nice?
D: Yes, he was very nice.
T: Was he around your age?
D: No he was much older, probable twice as old as I was.
T: Okay, so I guess you kind of had a job at Bird Haven.

D: I did, just working in the garden. Nothing to do with the woodworking part of it.
T: Did you make any friends with some of the other people who might have worked there?
D: Well I was friends with some of them. I knew some of them.
T: Do you mind telling us about some of them?
D: Well they were local people who were good at woodworking. That was their livelihood. And
they were very good carpenters. Most of them. And the other folks were just, you know, they
went there and learned their jobs and gave them a job and they learned how to do it and went
along from there.
T: So there were specialty workers and then regular workers.
D: Yes.
T: So I’m guessing you spent more time watching the specialty workers?
D: Yes.
T: (looking at table) So would you say that this lazy Susan right here that they hand carved the
middle area?
D: No I think they had tools to do that, called, like a lathe. They would put the wood in there
and, I think they call it turning it with a sharp instrument and a sharp instrument would do
those things for them if they held it in the right place. It would do those things for them.
T: But someone had to make all those designs and stuff.
D: Yes, exactly.
T: That’s really cool. Were you even interested in doing that yourself or did you just like to
watch?
D: No, I was not interested in that. I knew I couldn’t do it then so.
T: Were they older people doing this or were they around your age?
D: They were older people, older folks.
T: Did you ever see any children or people around your age at Bird Haven as well?
D: Well now and then there would be someone there but I don’t recall who they were or what
they were doing. I knew them most of the time, they were neighborhood people.
T: Were they also neighborhood people going there for fun, just to check it out?
D: I think they probably were children of parents who worked there.

T: And they were just there with their parents?
D: Yes.
T: So with this job that you had, did that cause you to go to Bird Haven more or did you just go
for this job?
D: I think I just went for that job basically in the summertime. Not much in the winter time.
T: So just once a month to pick weeds?
D: Probably more often than that. I can’t quite recall but I think it was more often than that.
T: So you would go sometimes for the job and sometimes just for fun?
D: Yes.
T: So you grew up in this town around here is that correct?
D: Yes.
T: What were some things that you would do for fun around here?
D: Well there wasn’t a lot to do. When I was growing up, all the kids were boys so we played
baseball a lot, football, things like that. That’s about all. Hiked in the woods, played in the
woods, things like that.
T: That’s cool. So did any of your friends ever come with you to Bird Haven?
D: I don’t recall that they did, no.
T: Were there any other places like Bird Haven that you would also visit?
D: No, there was nothing else in the vicinity like that.
T: So the very first went to Bird Haven with your father, what was your first impression of this
place?
D: It was a pretty neat place. I thought a lot of people worked there it seemed to me. I have no
idea the number.
T: Did you ever think that you would work there at all?
D: No because I was too young at the time. By the time I was old enough it was closed down.
T: Did you have family that worked there at all?
D: An uncle, that’s all.
T: And what did your uncle do?
D: I think he sanded a lot of the products when they were through.

T: So would you say he was more of the artisan type or more of a worker?
D: I would say just a worker.
T: Do you remember what he thought of Bird Haven?
D: Well, basically I think he thought of it just as a job, which was hard to come by close to home
then. And that it, he just thought of it as a job.
T: Okay that’s fair enough. So what did your parents think about Bird Haven?
D: Well they thought it was great for the community. It let the folks in the community work.
T: So Bird Haven kind of created a bunch of home decor types of things.
D: Yes, they created salad bowls and bigger serving bowls. All wood about that shade (looking
at Lazy Susan). I think they were made of maple. They were all about decorating the home and
make things to serve food out of and eat out of.
T: So did people around this town really rely on Bird Haven for these things? Did they buy a lot
of the goods that Bird Haven sold?
D: I think they did, yes. And they had a shop where you could buy.
T: On the compound?
D: Yes.
T: Did you ever go into that shop?
D: I probably did but I don’t recall anything about it.
T: So they made a lot of bowls and tools around there, was your father suppling a lot of the
lumber that they used for these products?
D: No, when he went down there with lumber, it was for his own use or for a neighbor who
wanted something done and he would just haul it down there for them.
T: So when you say for his own use or for his neighbor, he wouldn’t sell the lumber to Bird
Haven he would just use the machines that they had?
D: Yes, I assume they charged for it, I don’t really know.
T: So what kinds of things would your father make with the wood?
D: It was basically for construction, building construction. I don’t know that he made anything
else. Basically just for the building.
T: So I guess he would just be getting a full tree trunk into…

D: Lumber, yes. Like weather boarding for the side of a house. Things like that.
T: Was the wood maple also that he would use?
D: No probably it was oak or pine.
T: That grows a lot around here?
D: Right.
T: So did you ever get into any trouble at Bird Haven?
D: No, I don’t recall that I did.
T: That’s good. Not even with the family?
D: Right.
T: So the family that you worked for liked you?
D: Yes, that’s correct.
T: So what would you say was maybe your favorite memory of Bird Haven?
D: I don’t know, I guess just being there and um, when I went there for work, just to have
something to do. To make a little money.
T: Did they pay well?
D: I guess they paid the going rate of that time.
T: So did you ever get to go inside any of the factories at Bird Haven?
D: No I don’t recall that I did.
T: So how would you view inside them?
D: There were windows or an open door or something like that.
T: And you would just stand there and watch?
D: Yup I would just stand there and watch.
T: And nobody minded?
D: Nope, no one seemed to mind.
T: Did anyone ever come up to you and ask you what you were doing there at all?
D: Nope, they didn’t.
T: Would you say it was busy there? Like were there people moving around a lot or was it just
kind of people doing their jobs.
D: No just a lot of people doing their jobs.

T: So could you maybe tell me what Bird Haven kind of looked like? Could you describe what
you saw there?
D: Well, there was a large, long buildings divided into rooms where they did different jobs. One
of them was a post office and one of them was where they put them together and one had the
tools in it to make them in the shape they wanted and one was where they stained them and
put the finish on them and I guess one of them was where they packed them off and mailed
them off to the folks who had ordered them.
T: So it was just one building?
D: I remember it being one long building being divided into separate spaces.
T: Okay. So I heard there was a toy building at Bird Haven. Was it attached to the long one?
D: I’m sure it was, but I don’t recall. I don’t know.
T: Do you remember any other features that might have been at Bird Haven?
D: No, I don’t recall.
T: So how would you usually get to Bird Haven as a kid?
D: Usually I would be riding with someone, and when I worked in the gardens usually they (the
owners) would come pick me up and take me and bring me home.
T: How far away was that drive would you say?
D: I think it’s about two miles. Two and a half maybe.
T: That was pretty nice of them to do that.
D: Yes, it was. Sometimes I would ride my bicycle.
T: Yah that’s not that far.
D: Yes, that’s right, not too bad.
T: Especially in the summer in the mountains.
D: Yes, that’s correct.
T: So you started dating your wife at the time is that correct?
D: About then when we were in high school yes.
T: Did you ever bring her down to Bird Haven?
D: I don’t recall that I did. I don’t remember that.
T: Where would you usually go with her to take her out somewhere?

D: I would usually go see a movie in Jackson or Woodstock.
T: Oh like decently far away, like by driving?
D: Yes, by driving. About fifteen or twenty miles away.
T: So your father was involved in the lumber/ resort business. Did your mother have any jobs?
D: No, she did not, she was a stay at home mom.
T: So what did your father do at the resort?
D: He was the director.
T: Of the whole place?
D: Yes, of the whole place.
T: Wow, that’s a pretty big job. Did you ever help him out with the resort?
D: I worked there until I got out of high school and went to work for the telephone company
and then I became the director in 1988.
T: Of the resort?
D: Yes, I moved back home in 1973 and became the director in 1988.
T: That is very cool.
D: Yes, we enjoyed it.
T: Did people from the resort know about Bird Haven?
D: They probably did in the early days yah. But after it closed they didn’t know much about it.
T: When Bird Haven did close, how did you feel about that?
D: Well, I don’t believe I was here then. I believe I was out on my own, either in the military or
working away from here.
T: Did you ever stop by it after it shut down?
D: I was there sometimes yes.
T: So what would you say was your favorite memory of Bird Haven?
D: Probably seeing the people do their different jobs.
T: What was your favorite job to watch?
D: I guess the people using the lathe. That intrigued me.
T: Did you ever get into wood working after seeing these people?
D: No, I didn’t. I got to play around with it a little in high school, that’s all.

T: So your uncle worked in Bird Haven too. How close would you say you were to your extended
family around this time?
D: How do you mean?
T: Were you close with your uncle?
D: Yes, I was.
T: So he just looked at Bird Haven as a 9-5 job?
D: Yes, I believe he went to work there right out of high school. I don’t know how long he
worked there but he eventually moved away and worked somewhere else.
T: Was it the same type of work?
D: No I think it was a different type of work.
T: So you never really thought about working there correct?
D: Yes.
T: Was there a reason for that?
D: Well I wasn’t old enough and by the time I got out of high school then I left for the military
and after that it was closed.
T: So it wasn’t because of anything about Bird Haven it was just bad timing?
D: Right, yes.
T: So Bird Haven was “different” from other factories.
D: I think so, yes.
T: Did you notice anything that kind of seemed different from what you’ve seen either before
or after?
D: Well, there was a lot of hand work, it wasn’t really all that mechanized.
T: That’s interesting, anything else?
D: No I don’t think so.
T: Did the people seem any different?
D: No they were all basically local people who knew each other. They got along fine.
T: So it was just like people from around this town?
D: Yes, from the community.
T: Was this one of the communities where everyone seems to know each other?

D: Yes.
T: Even if you weren’t close, did you know anyone who worked there?
D: Yes, I did. I knew a lot of people who worked there.
T: Do you remember anyone in particular?
D: Well there were a couple of men who seemed to be the supervisors who were really good
woodworkers who knew how to do most anything with wood and they worked there most of
their life I think. They were much older than I was.
T: And they lived around here?
D: Yes, well they lived in about a 10 or 12 mile radius.
T: Did you ever talk to them?
D: I knew them, I talked to them but not a lot. Just in passing or something.
T: So besides giving people jobs, how else was Bird Haven important to the community?
D: Well, I guess they thought a lot of it. It was a neat place to go and they let you walk up and
down the road that was there and look in the buildings and see what was going on. They didn’t
object to that.
T: So people would go down to Bird Haven?
D: I’m sure they would. Not regularly but they would drive down there and see what was going
on.
T: You included I guess.
D: Yah, right. Me included.
T: So learning about Bird Haven, we heard about some other people talk about some almost
paranormal things about Bird Haven like the river that ran through it had like magical powers.
Did you ever hear of something like that?
D: No I didn’t hear about anything like that.
T: Yah apparently some people thought that…
D: Well most of the water in the wells down there was iron water and there were a lot of
springs with different kinds of water with different minerals in them. A lot of folks felt that it
was good for you.
T: Iron water, is that safe to drink.

D: Oh yes…I think so.
T: Is that where this area gets its water from?
D: Yes, well it comes from springs around here.
T: So besides Bird Haven, was there other places you would visit around here?
D: Well, no not particularly.
T: So when you came back to this town, did you notice any changes that occurred here after
Bird Haven closed?
D: No, after it closed I think a lot of folks had to get new jobs. Of course that means a little more
travel for them. They would leave a little earlier and get home a little later.
T: So people still lived here.
D: Yes they did.
T: Was there any major migrations of people out of this town?
D: No there were not.
T: So people still stayed here.
D: Yes, people still stayed here and traveled to their occupation.
T: So did you ever hear people say anything negative about Bird Haven?
D: No I have not.
T: What about some positive things in particular?
D: Well, people thought what they were doing was worthwhile and as long as people were
buying it they were doing something that was needed.
T: So people you would say liked their job there?
D: Yes.
T: So we mentioned that there were craftsmen that worked there. What were some of the jobs
that the non-craftsman workers would do?
D: Well sanding and putting the finish on the finished product. I assume they packed them up to
be mailed away and probably sawing them to the length or the shape they wanted them in.
T: So the craftsmen would be the ones to put the whole thing together?
D: Yes, yes I’m sure they had a pattern or something to go by so that…or maybe they made the
same thing all the time I don’t know.

T: That makes sense. Did you ever check out the toy section?
D: No I didn’t do that.
T: Did you ever see any artists around or people drawing at Bird Haven?
D: No I did not.
T: So did the people ever recognize you at Bird Haven when you would go down there?
D: Yes, I think some of them probably did.
T: Would they say hi to you?
D: Yes.
T: So it was friendly.
D: Yes, very friendly.
T: Would they ever give you anything like a souvenir?
D: No I don’t recall that I ever got anything from them.
T: So about this supervisor family that you worked with, do you mind telling us a little bit more
about them, if you remember?
D: Well, what I remember was that they were local people and they were very good
woodworkers.
T: So did they ever do any of the crafting at Bird Haven?
D: I’m sure they had a hand in it some way or another. How to put it together and how to make
the parts work together and things like that.
T: So they weren’t like the owners were they?
D: No, no they were not
T: So they were like managers watching over?
D: Yes, that sounds right.
T: Did you ever meet the owners of Bird Haven?
D: I assume I did. The people who I worked in the gardens for they were the owners then. I
don’t know if they were the original owners or not. But they were the owners then.
T: The gardens?
D: They owned the gardens and the factories.
T: How big were the gardens at Bird Haven?

D: Probably 20x20 or 30x30.
T: So was it like a house garden, or was it a place you could walk through.
D: Just a big flower garden. They had all types of flowers.
T: That’s pretty interesting.
D: With paths you can walk through it.
T: So it was like a factory but it had this nice scenic area.
D: That the owners had yes.
T: Could workers go into the flower garden at all?
D: I don’t recall seeing any of them there, no.
T: Were you the only one that was in charge of its upkeep?
D: Well I wasn’t in charge of its upkeep I was just employed there. I was the only one there
when I was there. I don’t know if anyone else worked there or not.
T: But it was basically just you cleaning up the flowers.
D: Yes, correct.
T: How did you like that job?
D: Well, at the time it was okay. I didn’t mind. I was young and you worked on anything.
T: What kinds of flowers did they have?
D: I haven’t the faintest idea.
T: That’s understandable. So would your father, when he was doing lumber work, would he get
the wood himself or would he buy it from people?
D: He would usually get it from local folks. People who worked in the woods and saw mills to
make the lumber and saw the lumber. He would usually get it from them.
T: So was he into construction?
D: Not really, it was mostly for repair of the buildings around where he worked.
T: The resort correct?
D: Yes.
T: Could you maybe tell me a bit about the resort?
D: Well, part of it was build right after the Civil War. The Shrine Mont, that part of the
conference center was built in 1925, so both of them have been here for a long time. It was

always for warm weather, usually opening the first of April and close the end of October. And
the springs were the drawing crowd, like we spoke about the water. There was a lot of springs
around and they were supposed to be good for you so they had water around where you could
drink it. It was supposed to help you.
T: That’s pretty nice. So being a child there, what kinds of things would you do for fun around
the resort? Or were you mostly helping your dad?
D: I’d help my dad some. Well they had a golf course one time and I would caddy on the golf
course for some of the folks. It was a pretty crude golf course but it was exercise. And they had
a small bowling alley. I had to set the pins by hand. They didn’t have automatic pin setters.
T: Was that your job?
D: I did that now and then.
T: That’s fun. So did you get paid for it or were you helping your dad?
D: No I got paid for it. Actually, the bowling alley was contracted out. Somebody else ran that
and I just worked for the folks who were managers there at the bowling alley. They paid me.
T: That’s a nice addition to a resort, a bowling alley.
D: Yes, it was. Of course they don’t have that anymore.
T: Oh really? They got rid of it?
D: Yes, a long time ago.
T: That’s a shame.
D: Yup.
T: So did you ever have goods from Bird Haven in your own home?
D: We have some.
T: Growing up I mean.
D: Oh yes we had some. Yes we did.
T: I’m guessing bowls and other stuff.
D: Yes.
T: Did you ever have any of the toys?
D: I don’t recall having any toys.
T: I know they made puzzles there, did they make any other sorts of toys?

D: I think they probably, I don’t know if you could pull or push around or move. Just like the
kinds that could sit on a shelf for decorations. That’s what I think they were. I don’t really recall
but that’s what I think they were.
T: That’s probably the easiest thing to make as a toy. So did you ever see any very young
children running around Bird Haven?
D: No, I don’t recall seeing any young children.
T: Did you see any children at all?
D: Not any young children. Maybe twelve or teenagers would be about all I see.
T: Would you ever talk to them?
D: Oh yes. From the community, we were friends.
T: Did you ever hang out with them at Bird Haven?
D: No we never hung out there, for one reason or another we would be there but we would
never hang out as like a group. We just happened to be there at the same time.
T: Would you ever ride your bike there with them or walk back together? Or would you just
kind of pass them and say hi?
D: Just kind of pass them and say hi.
T: Okay. Would you ever hang out with them in this town?
D: Oh yes, we were around all the time. We would do things.
T: So you would maybe play a baseball game?
D: Yes, like play baseball.
T: Did you have a best friend growing up that you would spend a lot of time with?
D: Probably one of them here that I would play baseball with all the time who was a little older
than I was. He happened to be the closest neighbor at the time. We hung out together.
T: Do you remember his name?
D: His name was Richard Funkhouser. He’s deceased.
T: Did he ever go to Bird Haven?
D: I don’t recall seeing him there.
T: So would you ever spend any days during the summer helping your mother out?
D: Yah, we had a pretty large garden. I worked in the garden with her.

T: You’re a bit of an expert on that.
D: Yes, yes. (chuckles) They thought I was but I really wasn’t.
T: How did you end up getting the gardening job?
D: I guess the folks down there probably knew my dad and knew that I was around here and
wanted to know if I wanted to work a couple days a week or something like that.
T: And you enjoyed the job correct?
D: Yes, yes I did.
T: What other sorts of jobs that you had at this time? I know you worked in the bowling alley
and the gardens.
D: That was about it. And I would mow lawns for folks around here. Usually not for pay just for
something to do to keep me out of trouble I guess. It gave me something to do.
T: That’s nice. That’s very good of you to do.
D: Yes, thank you.
T: So you’re a teenager with a bit of money. What would you buy with this? Did you save it up
for something big, or did you just kind of…
D: I just kind of spent it on things that I wanted.
T: Do you remember any of them? Like any fun purchases that you made?
D: No I don’t recall any right now. I wasn’t saving for anything like an automobile or anything
like that. Probably saving to buy a bicycle. And to buy baseball gloves and bats and those things.
That’s all.
T: That’s fun. Those are good summer toys. Did any of your friends have jobs as well?
D: Yah they worked at the resort doing different jobs. Some of them I think were dishwashers
and busboys and probably working on the golf course too.
T: So what did you enjoy more, the bowling alley job or the gardening job?
D: Probably the gardening job because I got to work outside.
T: How are the summers here? Does it get too hot?
D: No, not for a very long time. It might just be two or three really hot days and then it cools off.
T: Because were in the mountains I would think it would be pretty chill
D: Yes the mountains definitely helped.

T: So during the winter, it’s harder to go outside and do these things. What were some of the
other fun things to do around here during the winter?
D: Just go sledding when it snowed around. As you can see there are a lot of hills around so it
wasn’t very hard to find a place to slide.
T: That’s a lot of fun. So people still worked at Bird Haven during the winter time I’m guessing.
D: Yes.
T: Would you ever go down during then?
D: I don’t recall being down there in the winter time.
T: When was about the last time you went to Bird Haven?
D: I don’t know. I was down there a couple years ago. There was nothing going on. For some
reason I just drove down there to see what was going on to see what was there and what was
still left.
T: What did you see that was different?
D: The buildings were in a pretty bad state of repair at the time. But I haven’t been there in a
number of years.
T: Did it bring back any memories?
D: I remember walking though the buildings, or walking by them and looking in to see what was
there.
T: Were they happy memories?
D: Yes, yes they were.
T: So I guess I just have one final question. So if you could describe Bird Haven in one word,
what word do you think that would be?
D: (Taking a moment to think) Unique I think. I never saw any other place like it.
T: And what do you think made it unique?
D: Well the folks doing the work by hand. At that time there was not a lot of machinery around I
guess. But they had machinery like lathes and saws that the average person didn’t have. And it
was just a unique place to go and walk up and down the street and look in the buildings.
T: That’s really cool, that’s very interesting. Well thank you for doing this interview with me.
D: Yes sir.